Any tips for Watkins Glen?
05-17-2013, 01:55 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There is some turn-by-turn commentary here: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Turn_...ins_Glen_track. There are lots of YouTube videos out there, too. However, there is nothing like driving it.
05-17-2013, 02:59 PM
#19
a few key thoughts from memory
End of front straight / Turn 1
- you are braking downhill so once your speed gets up you will realize you have to brake a little earlier than you think
- you want your right tires over the curbing on the 1st apex
- there is now lots of room to get it wrong on track out and you can go over the trackout curbing on exit for sure (watch some nascar footage to see what i'm talking about
The Uphill
- this is the entire key to the track
- you have to find the grove to convince yourself you can go as fast as the fast cars
- almost certainly, you want to short shift before you are entering the uphill (a gt3 would go into 4th here) so that you absolutely do not have to shift as you transition right and then left
- try to stay Fully left to line up the uphill right
- shift to 4th and then turn in - the APEX is about 1 foot off the curbing - you want to 'GET IT IN THERE' for grip
- the next part is pretty much the key to the entire track and if you get it wrong it is where you can get into a big wreck
- confidence is absolutely key
- as your speed goes up, if you get it wrong and you lift, you can and will be hitting walls
- as you turn left, you do so slightly earlier than you might think, because as your speed goes up if you turn-in late, your car will be right loaded and your car will get light at the top of the hill and potentially snap
- this does not matter at slow speeds, it does not matter at fast intermediate speeds - it matter tremendously at the edge
- at the edge, your car is cresting a hill and you will be losing mechanical grip
- if you have aero it helps dramatically as you are now in the 120+mph and rising speeds and you can very much feel the difference
- as an example, a gt3 mk1 wing in stock position versus an RS wing at 12 degrees makes for a dramatic difference in feel in this exact spot
- in the old days this section was known as the 996gt3 killer as a lot of cars lost it here - the soft engine mounts would allow the engine to slightly shift to the right with a late turn-in (which looks to be a proper turn-in) it would snap - and then into the wall
- when I was there last year to join Grady, Sly and crew, I left a little early and took my lady to watch at this point as we were leaving - and sure enough a gt3 lost it, did a 720 and kept it out of both walls and most importantly no one from behind t-boned him at 120mph - he was very very luck
- turn in 'very' slightly early (end of yellow line on right side going up the hill) and you should be FLAT just before turn-in if not earlier depending on the car
The Bus Stop
- entry speed, entry speed, entry speed, entry speed
- i will say it one more time - entry speed
- the pro line, Grady & Clarke line is you stick the entire right side of the car over the right entry turtles - in fact you can think of it as only the left wheels are on the black stuff
- when you have done that, it naturally follows that your left wheels will now take a lot of curbing on the left side entry curbs
- when you now consider the above virtual straight entry, you can now understand that entry at pro speeds is way faster than actually steering right and then left - way faster
- the other thing to keep in your mind is that you actually shouldn't be back on the throttle again until you have to steer left again to exit the bus stop
- fast intermediates think 83mph as they enter the busstop is fast - I think Grady and Clarke in the chase had the middle of their cars over the first curbing doing 115 as they are basically going straight
- the exit curbing of the bus stop is used for sure - but only 1/2 as much as the entry curbing - unless you are Kyle Bush and it is one lap to go
After the Bus Stop / the Outer loop
- after you exit the Bus Stop you do NOT go fully left to line up the right hand sweeper
- just take the car to left of track centre and then slowly wind it in
- to be fast here you have to hit the apex so you can be flat at the apex
- if you miss it by a foot the car will want to push too much at exit so you will have to hold back - car wants to drift left on track out (you will feel it in your stomach)
The Down hill Brake Zone (#6)
- this is one in your gt3 where you get that oh **** feeling as the very downhill nature causes the car's ABS to release brake pressure
- if you over cook it, there is time to save it, just save it don't be a hero
- it is a great turn that you can take faster than you think once you find the line
Entry into the TOE (#7)
- you have to carry in more speed than you think - way more
- but, you have to use the uphill to slow the car
- the pros carry the brakes half way around the corner - much farther than typical DE drivers
- to use this line you line up the car fully left but you brake it into the middle of the track and then further up and into the hill - this allows way higher entry speed
- do not stay out to the left - start there but bring it in and use the hill to slow you
- the second apex in the TOE is 1 foot off the curbing - you should be WOT just before this as you are about to go straight up a hill - you have to get WOT as soon as possible
The Heal of the boot (#8)
- this is a slow corner but again you want to trail brake it around the apex and try and keep entry speed as high as possible
- you do not touch the apex curbs here - you will see them they are NOT friendly - trackout are fine but will upset the car some
(#9)
- it is just one of those funky turns that you have to try out many lines to see what works for you
- some guys swear you want to be fully right - others say there is more grip taking it just right of centre for entry (I use just right of center for me in the gt3)
- very very late apex, keep winding it in (can't touch the apex curbing here either)
- to be fast you need to use all the trackout all the way to the grass
(#10)
- this is the money turn
- in the old days you get it wrong it cost you lots of money
- they have paved the runoff now so you can save it if you take it too fast
- to be crazy fast you will likely have right tires over trackout turtles (but build up to this)
- this corner is faster than you think
- you have to build up to how fast you can actually take it
- there is a 2 foot section of track that is right of the white track line on turn-in - you want to use every inch of the track on turn in - every inch
- mentally, to help you go fast, it is actually worth practicing not braking for #10 and just lifting for as long as necessary to convince your brain that only the tiniest tap is necessary
Entry onto front straight (#11)
- when you are not on the track, walk around and take a look at the camber that is helping you on track out - there is lots - it is a banked corner
- also, to be fast you have to use every bit of trackout right up to the wall - which is way past the paved line
You are in for a treat - WG is my favorite track experience
- it is a faster VIR with Blue guard rail everywhere (you won't see it after a while)
- Grady, parents, Sly, Clarke and I hit a few different places for a nice meal (a winery up the hill) and the new Harbour hotel in town
- also make sure to grab a beer at the famous Seneca Lodge - just to say you did
There is a souvenir shop on the track premises that you can miss if you don't ask where it is - it is 150 yards from the paddock that you can pull up to after leaving the hot track and just park in front - that's what i did - pickup a hoody or shirt for the kids, etc
End of front straight / Turn 1
- you are braking downhill so once your speed gets up you will realize you have to brake a little earlier than you think
- you want your right tires over the curbing on the 1st apex
- there is now lots of room to get it wrong on track out and you can go over the trackout curbing on exit for sure (watch some nascar footage to see what i'm talking about
The Uphill
- this is the entire key to the track
- you have to find the grove to convince yourself you can go as fast as the fast cars
- almost certainly, you want to short shift before you are entering the uphill (a gt3 would go into 4th here) so that you absolutely do not have to shift as you transition right and then left
- try to stay Fully left to line up the uphill right
- shift to 4th and then turn in - the APEX is about 1 foot off the curbing - you want to 'GET IT IN THERE' for grip
- the next part is pretty much the key to the entire track and if you get it wrong it is where you can get into a big wreck
- confidence is absolutely key
- as your speed goes up, if you get it wrong and you lift, you can and will be hitting walls
- as you turn left, you do so slightly earlier than you might think, because as your speed goes up if you turn-in late, your car will be right loaded and your car will get light at the top of the hill and potentially snap
- this does not matter at slow speeds, it does not matter at fast intermediate speeds - it matter tremendously at the edge
- at the edge, your car is cresting a hill and you will be losing mechanical grip
- if you have aero it helps dramatically as you are now in the 120+mph and rising speeds and you can very much feel the difference
- as an example, a gt3 mk1 wing in stock position versus an RS wing at 12 degrees makes for a dramatic difference in feel in this exact spot
- in the old days this section was known as the 996gt3 killer as a lot of cars lost it here - the soft engine mounts would allow the engine to slightly shift to the right with a late turn-in (which looks to be a proper turn-in) it would snap - and then into the wall
- when I was there last year to join Grady, Sly and crew, I left a little early and took my lady to watch at this point as we were leaving - and sure enough a gt3 lost it, did a 720 and kept it out of both walls and most importantly no one from behind t-boned him at 120mph - he was very very luck
- turn in 'very' slightly early (end of yellow line on right side going up the hill) and you should be FLAT just before turn-in if not earlier depending on the car
The Bus Stop
- entry speed, entry speed, entry speed, entry speed
- i will say it one more time - entry speed
- the pro line, Grady & Clarke line is you stick the entire right side of the car over the right entry turtles - in fact you can think of it as only the left wheels are on the black stuff
- when you have done that, it naturally follows that your left wheels will now take a lot of curbing on the left side entry curbs
- when you now consider the above virtual straight entry, you can now understand that entry at pro speeds is way faster than actually steering right and then left - way faster
- the other thing to keep in your mind is that you actually shouldn't be back on the throttle again until you have to steer left again to exit the bus stop
- fast intermediates think 83mph as they enter the busstop is fast - I think Grady and Clarke in the chase had the middle of their cars over the first curbing doing 115 as they are basically going straight
- the exit curbing of the bus stop is used for sure - but only 1/2 as much as the entry curbing - unless you are Kyle Bush and it is one lap to go
After the Bus Stop / the Outer loop
- after you exit the Bus Stop you do NOT go fully left to line up the right hand sweeper
- just take the car to left of track centre and then slowly wind it in
- to be fast here you have to hit the apex so you can be flat at the apex
- if you miss it by a foot the car will want to push too much at exit so you will have to hold back - car wants to drift left on track out (you will feel it in your stomach)
The Down hill Brake Zone (#6)
- this is one in your gt3 where you get that oh **** feeling as the very downhill nature causes the car's ABS to release brake pressure
- if you over cook it, there is time to save it, just save it don't be a hero
- it is a great turn that you can take faster than you think once you find the line
Entry into the TOE (#7)
- you have to carry in more speed than you think - way more
- but, you have to use the uphill to slow the car
- the pros carry the brakes half way around the corner - much farther than typical DE drivers
- to use this line you line up the car fully left but you brake it into the middle of the track and then further up and into the hill - this allows way higher entry speed
- do not stay out to the left - start there but bring it in and use the hill to slow you
- the second apex in the TOE is 1 foot off the curbing - you should be WOT just before this as you are about to go straight up a hill - you have to get WOT as soon as possible
The Heal of the boot (#8)
- this is a slow corner but again you want to trail brake it around the apex and try and keep entry speed as high as possible
- you do not touch the apex curbs here - you will see them they are NOT friendly - trackout are fine but will upset the car some
(#9)
- it is just one of those funky turns that you have to try out many lines to see what works for you
- some guys swear you want to be fully right - others say there is more grip taking it just right of centre for entry (I use just right of center for me in the gt3)
- very very late apex, keep winding it in (can't touch the apex curbing here either)
- to be fast you need to use all the trackout all the way to the grass
(#10)
- this is the money turn
- in the old days you get it wrong it cost you lots of money
- they have paved the runoff now so you can save it if you take it too fast
- to be crazy fast you will likely have right tires over trackout turtles (but build up to this)
- this corner is faster than you think
- you have to build up to how fast you can actually take it
- there is a 2 foot section of track that is right of the white track line on turn-in - you want to use every inch of the track on turn in - every inch
- mentally, to help you go fast, it is actually worth practicing not braking for #10 and just lifting for as long as necessary to convince your brain that only the tiniest tap is necessary
Entry onto front straight (#11)
- when you are not on the track, walk around and take a look at the camber that is helping you on track out - there is lots - it is a banked corner
- also, to be fast you have to use every bit of trackout right up to the wall - which is way past the paved line
You are in for a treat - WG is my favorite track experience
- it is a faster VIR with Blue guard rail everywhere (you won't see it after a while)
- Grady, parents, Sly, Clarke and I hit a few different places for a nice meal (a winery up the hill) and the new Harbour hotel in town
- also make sure to grab a beer at the famous Seneca Lodge - just to say you did
There is a souvenir shop on the track premises that you can miss if you don't ask where it is - it is 150 yards from the paddock that you can pull up to after leaving the hot track and just park in front - that's what i did - pickup a hoody or shirt for the kids, etc
Last edited by 997gt3north; 05-19-2013 at 09:27 PM.
05-17-2013, 10:25 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
05-17-2013, 10:43 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Excellent gt3 north.. I was there for the first time last wknd w arpca... Fantastic historic track, at first very apprehensive with the tight runoff everywhere but up to speed as it warmed in the aft. The line not that hard to learn but staying flat in the uphill esses is something i need to work on the next vist. Focusing on getting to know the car better went full soft on the rear bar which offered much more grip especially in the toe section. Very happy with the setup now w Hoos but 1.5 hrs a day at a track like WGI is just not enough to get truly comfortable. VIR next..
05-17-2013, 11:00 PM
#27
Team Owner
My favorite track. I will be there for 8 straight days coaching from May 27 through June 2.
You also don't want or need to be full right going downhill at turn in for 6.
Also, there is new, larger concrete patchwork in 7 and 9. It helps in 7, it makes 9 a bit different. Beware when wet.
You also don't want or need to be full right going downhill at turn in for 6.
Also, there is new, larger concrete patchwork in 7 and 9. It helps in 7, it makes 9 a bit different. Beware when wet.
05-18-2013, 09:04 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
The four most important turns at WGI are T1, T5A (bus stop), T10 and T11.
Going up the esses, going from turn in for T2 to turn in for T3, there is a yellow line that runs up the right side by the curbing. Where it ends, is your reference point for turn in to T3. At or before the apex of T3, you should be on full power until the braking zone for the bus stop.
Going up the esses, going from turn in for T2 to turn in for T3, there is a yellow line that runs up the right side by the curbing. Where it ends, is your reference point for turn in to T3. At or before the apex of T3, you should be on full power until the braking zone for the bus stop.
05-18-2013, 11:47 AM
#30
That is a great video and shows everything I was trying to describe.
The other thing it shows, and I forgot, is there is a tiny straight section after completing 3 where you can get in a gear change - with my 4.0 r&p that is wear I change to 5th and that takes me all the way to the bus stop.
You listen to that video you can hear where he picks back up the throttle again in the bus stop and in the toe and it demonstrates how far he carries the brakes into those 2 areas. And also that was mentioned above you dont have to be fully right to set up downhill #6.
The other thing it shows, and I forgot, is there is a tiny straight section after completing 3 where you can get in a gear change - with my 4.0 r&p that is wear I change to 5th and that takes me all the way to the bus stop.
You listen to that video you can hear where he picks back up the throttle again in the bus stop and in the toe and it demonstrates how far he carries the brakes into those 2 areas. And also that was mentioned above you dont have to be fully right to set up downhill #6.