Veloce Raptor

Yup.

forhamilton

One additional advantage on the nittos is no warm up. Just drive. Some of the de's might have to cut a session short, but at least you didn't have to waste a long warm up time.

DC640

+1

one of the instructor drove my car and I sat in and experienced a whole new level of "omg". He did 6 seconds faster than me while he was trying to teach me the lines and car control. He wasn't pushing the car nor jeopardized safety. I had Mpss and That tells me that getting sticker tires is not the way to get "faster"

I told myself to keep learning and practicing and learn from his ideas. I basically learned what the car can do in a smooth fashion and realized tons of stuff I was doing wrong.

Learn the car properly w proper coaching and increase seat time. Faster times will come naturally I believe..... Learn the limits of the tires properly and control the car when it exceeds the limit. I think with sticker tires that loses grip, **** happens much faster and novice drivers panic and freeze... i recall my 1st day of DE lol

CRex

OP: your specific question has to do with going to R-comps from R6's. I'm going to stick to that and not debate the merits/demerits of running sticky tires for anybody's given predicament.

1. A good driver should be able to handle various grip levels. On those grounds I train myself to drive on street rubber from time to time. Old hooters too. The point is to learn to drive with varying grip levels.
2. The sticky hooters/slicks really mask mistakes with your inputs (esp. throttle). Your first couple sessions back in street rubber (e-nannies off) will see huge slip angles, big slides and even bigger spins. Living with that lower grip--and smoothly making the best out of it--is the education.

I probably won't go out of my way to buy a set of street rubber just for the sake of. Your current street tires will see action in due course--cross-country trips where you can't trailer hooters around, or wet/rainy events where even the best stickers turn hockey-pucks. Go enjoy them and learn. The MPSS is a tremendous tire in this regard. Phenomenal lateral grip (both dry & wet) and very linear.

Other than that, run your hooters till they (almost) cord. My best learning experience is when I set a personal record with stickers (initial 1-3 HCs) and aim to hit it again some 10-15 HCs later. When that happens I'm surely gonna do a new personal best when I put on the following set of stickers.

p.s. that's what happened to me last month... drove my 15/16HC hooters to the limit and came within 0.05 secs of my "reference" lap from the same tires the month before. Compare the data traces before and after, and marvel at the different inputs you're capable of. If you did the same I bet you'll find yourself MUCH smoother in the second dataset. It's a great feeling!

wanna911

Thats my experience the last 2 years. Set time on stickers then try and match that time on well used tires. Rinse repeat. I dont think I learn much for grippier faster breaking tires by going in reverse to less grip. Some people move up way to fast no doubt but in that case why not all the way back to pure street tires with even less grip or all seasons or something? I dont understand.

I still think hot laps on old semi slicks will teach you more than slow reacting street tires. Lightning quick corrections without losing much speed is lots of fun. Assuming advanced level driving experience, ability.

It boils down to the desire to learn the fundamentals, learn what you are missing and improve.

85Gold

^^^ This. R's will be faster but won't make you a better driver. I still run AD08's on the 6GT3 as they are fun and last 8 to 10 track days. If I feel serious I switch to NT01's. The only R6 I run is the TT car as it needs them to be competitive in its class.

I know people like MPSS but I don't except for the wet where they Rock. The extremely soft sidewall makes for delayed turn in and they feel numb.

Peter

Peter

Nick Wong

The big misconception about DE is- R compounds make you faster. That is really not true- R compounds make the car faster, but not the driver. Depending on the tire, it can have a higher threshold for grip before giving out, and when it does give, it breaks away gradually (lower tech R compounds like the Nitto/Toyo or Kumho which are more like a street tire) or suddenly (BFG R1) or in between (Hoosier). What makes you a good driver (in my opinion) is how you respond in that grey area of looseness, right at the limit of grip, how easy you are on the tire, and how long you can keep it in that region without killing the tire. That control limit can be worked on with a street tire- street tires just break away more gradually with more warning and have lower limits.

DE is not racing. No real need to run R compounds except to save street tires (which are usually cheaper than the R compound). I used to run track days on M+S rated tires on other cars- @$50 a tire new, it was cheap rubber and it made small tracks like GingerMan fun again.

AudiOn19s

Absolutely agree. After two years in my car I still feel like I learn something every time out on NT-01's. The need to drive them with a good amount of slip angle to have decent pace has given me TONS of confidence in the car.

There's always the competative desire to mount faster tires and hunt for that magical lap but until I feel like I'm "that slow guy" in the way of the cars around me I"ll stick to what I know and love.

Mvez

slip angle = fun

Hoosiers have some, but not as much NT01/RA1 type tires. I'm not talking about massive opposite lock, I'm talking about "feeling" the car grip, let go, grip, let go, grip, let go, through the entire cornering phase. Learning to drive through that and hold max slip angle is a very, very satisfying experience. It never gets old, and I always enjoy the practice and challenge.

This is also exactly why I don't use as much tire as possible, the 245/305 size is sublime for these cars, and while I leave a lot of grip on the table (compared to most who use 255/335 Hoosiers), the car's balance is fantastic, and it's a challenge to drive smooth and clean.

I guess I'm always going to be a BMW guy in terms of enjoying balance over outright grip.

deputydog95

I did exactly that. A few years ago I went to hoosiers prematurely to try and get faster. I did, but it was mostly taking advantage of the mechanical grip of the tires. I didn't change anything I was doing.

Then around 2 years ago, mostly due to expense, I took a step back to Nitto's. Had nothing to do with learning, I was just tired of chunking about tons of money for DE tires and the Nittos are a great value. I knew I wasn't going nearly as fast as what the R6 could go, so what was the point of running them? As an added bonus, a lot less grip forced me to re-evaluate what I doing and make some changes.

I've been running the Nittos for about 2 years. I can now consistently surpass the best time I ever had in the winter on the Hoosiers in dead FL summer heat on the Nittos.

As a graduation present to myself, I went and bought a set of new R6 and a used set of Pirellis slicks

I do enjoy running on the stickier tires, but I don't think anyone can argue that part of the learning process should include moving up through the tire options and not jumping right in head first to a race tire. I wasted a lot of time on the Hoosiers during that period, and I made the mistake of not running them to the cords as other suggested.

forhamilton

I've never even tried NT01's. Gonna give 'em a go.

forhamilton

Lots of truth here. Thanks

utkinpol

what about max load rating for rear 315 NT01? they refused to sell me those tires from discounttiredirect when I told them I am going to use them on 997. I do believe it is BS but, still, does anybody know what is an actual min required load rating for rear tires in 997 series cars?

deputydog95

I've been through 4 sets of nittos. For whatever that's worth. Just find a car that runs that size and order it as that.

911rox

OEM tyres have a load rating of 102 in the rear, this is the minimum...