Notices
997 GT2/GT3 Forum 2005-2012
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Porsche North Houston

What does it take to break a forged wheel?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-28-2012 | 11:57 AM
  #31  
TRAKCAR's Avatar
TRAKCAR
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,459
Likes: 1,717
From: S. Florida
Default

Never cracked a wheel, but know of CCW and Fiske's cracking.
Maybe it is time to take a closer look at the inside of the BBS to make sure all is OK when I go to the track with a few weekend old tires.

I run 2 sets, never bend or cracked and when Orbit remounts or flips tires they check them over when they clean and balance them.
Old 11-28-2012 | 12:03 PM
  #32  
cfjan's Avatar
cfjan
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,808
Likes: 33
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Default

I hear your concern, but just stating that I have seen some GrandAm team that runs powdercoated wheels.. when asked about that, they told me that it is a non-issue.. that their wheels heats up quite a bit from braking.. and powdercoating now can be done at a pretty low temperature.

And like I said, a few reputable wheel makers also offer powdercoat as an option for their track wheels. I assume that it is done at a low enough temperature.


Originally Posted by Nick Wong
Umm, I wouldn't trust anyone to do it right. Fully stressed lightweight AL forgings getting tempered via baking, not a good idea. Painting them is okay, but powder coat, IMO not for track wheels. A crack in a spoke is a material failure, if it was powder coated, the process is in all likelihood directly responsible for the failure. There is no other obvious damage to the spoke and it looks like it cracked from the inside.
Old 11-28-2012 | 12:12 PM
  #33  
Nick Wong's Avatar
Nick Wong
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by paver
Not sure. Does powder coating come off in big flakes?
Powder coating usually goes on pretty thick, literally a millimeter or more. If it gets damaged from the outside (extremely rare unless not enough heat was used) it usually doesn't flake, just chips where the impact is. Damage internally usually causes some flaking. Powder coating is a durable finish, more so than typical automotive paint.

cfjan- I hear what you're saying, but most teams time out their equipment well before any of us would consider it to be fully used, so to them it probably isn't a problem.

The other issue is something you just touched upon- heat dissipation. Powder coated wheels will retain heat a lot longer because of the insulating properties of the finish.
Old 11-28-2012 | 12:28 PM
  #34  
cfjan's Avatar
cfjan
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,808
Likes: 33
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Default

I get what you are saying about a pro team will time out the parts, but just seems that if it is an issue (at all), they would not risk that.. (i.e., if they can choose between paint and powdercoat, why would they choose PC if it weaken the wheels that much)

The point of heating the wheels.. I think the guy was trying to say that the wheels are being heated from the brake anyway.. (to a temperature that's similar to a low temp PC process)

But if I am going to re-finish my wheels, I will probably go w/ paint.. !
Old 11-28-2012 | 12:38 PM
  #35  
TTurbine's Avatar
TTurbine
Pro
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 573
Likes: 6
From: Qatar
Default

Originally Posted by Nick Wong
Were those wheels powder coated? That process weakens aluminum forgings.
Good point , no wonder why BBS dont recomend powder coating on their street lw wheels such as the FI's
Old 11-28-2012 | 01:56 PM
  #36  
Nick Wong's Avatar
Nick Wong
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by cfjan
I get what you are saying about a pro team will time out the parts, but just seems that if it is an issue (at all), they would not risk that.. (i.e., if they can choose between paint and powdercoat, why would they choose PC if it weaken the wheels that much)

The point of heating the wheels.. I think the guy was trying to say that the wheels are being heated from the brake anyway.. (to a temperature that's similar to a low temp PC process)

But if I am going to re-finish my wheels, I will probably go w/ paint.. !
They probably don't use ultra lightweight wheels either, so to them, the coating durability outweighs the risk. GMG wheels, my Champion RS98 wheels, many of the HRE wheels I would put in that category- ultra lightweight forged- durable enough for limited track use, more than good enough for road use. I remember seeing the Lamborghini lose a HRE wheel in a pro race maybe a year ago? It looked like a spoke failure too.
Old 11-28-2012 | 05:41 PM
  #37  
452gt3's Avatar
452gt3
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 422
Likes: 22
From: San Diego
Default

I had a CCW 11' wheel crack but it was a very old non powder coated that had many track hours. I have three sets of CCW wheels this was the only one that were not 12" rears. I called John at CCW and he asked for them back and replaced both with 12" amazing customer service I also have a set of CCW for my zo6. I plan to buy more wheels from them soon.
Old 11-28-2012 | 06:47 PM
  #38  
jrotsaert's Avatar
jrotsaert
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 802
Likes: 7
From: Boca Raton, FL
Default

Happened on every single one of my race cars: 993 cup, 964 RSR, 996 Cup, 996 RSR. It just happens when you drive the thing hard... wear item and that's when you're happy to have 3 pieces and just replace the center
Old 11-28-2012 | 10:24 PM
  #39  
stevecolletti's Avatar
stevecolletti
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 5
From: Southern California
Default

Originally Posted by Nick Wong
Powder coating usually goes on pretty thick, literally a millimeter or more. If it gets damaged from the outside (extremely rare unless not enough heat was used) it usually doesn't flake, just chips where the impact is. Damage internally usually causes some flaking. Powder coating is a durable finish, more so than typical automotive paint.

cfjan- I hear what you're saying, but most teams time out their equipment well before any of us would consider it to be fully used, so to them it probably isn't a problem.

The other issue is something you just touched upon- heat dissipation. Powder coated wheels will retain heat a lot longer because of the insulating properties of the finish.
+1. Powder coating can also hide cracks.
Old 11-28-2012 | 11:01 PM
  #40  
Izzone's Avatar
Izzone
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,342
Likes: 295
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Nick Wong
Originally Posted by cfjan
I get what you are saying about a pro team will time out the parts, but just seems that if it is an issue (at all), they would not risk that.. (i.e., if they can choose between paint and powdercoat, why would they choose PC if it weaken the wheels that much)

The point of heating the wheels.. I think the guy was trying to say that the wheels are being heated from the brake anyway.. (to a temperature that's similar to a low temp PC process)

But if I am going to re-finish my wheels, I will probably go w/ paint.. !
They probably don't use ultra lightweight wheels either, so to them, the coating durability outweighs the risk. GMG wheels, my Champion RS98 wheels, many of the HRE wheels I would put in that category- ultra lightweight forged- durable enough for limited track use, more than good enough for road use. I remember seeing the Lamborghini lose a HRE wheel in a pro race maybe a year ago? It looked like a spoke failure too.
I beat the snot out of my gmg

They havnt cracked
Old 11-28-2012 | 11:34 PM
  #41  
Nick Wong's Avatar
Nick Wong
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Izzone
I beat the snot out of my gmg

They havnt cracked
Painted or powder coated? I think yours are painted or anodized, no? And yes, you beat the living crap out of your wheels. Quite a testament to the wheel's engineering!
Old 11-30-2012 | 02:10 PM
  #42  
philstireservice's Avatar
philstireservice
Former Vendor
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: New York
Default

Track wheels should be replaced on a regular basis (2 years maximum) no matter what. That is what the race teams do and most do them more often. All wheels crack and or fail under track conditions. The forces, braking, bouncing off curbs, as well as mechanic abuse, during a race, push the limits of all wheels. The best prevention is regular maintenance. Just like changing oil, brake pads and rotors, wheels are a wear item that often get overlooked by the amateur weekend racer and track day participant. Wheel manufacturers know this and most are more than willing to help repair or replace if the proper procedures have been adhered to from the beginning.
Old 11-30-2012 | 02:32 PM
  #43  
LehmanZ06's Avatar
LehmanZ06
Pro
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 688
Likes: 104
From: South Florida
Default

All I do is autocross and NO track.....

I have a street set of OEM's CL's
Aduplicate set of OEM's that I have A6's on
Another set of Supepforgiatas OZ A6's
Another set of OZ's the NON superforgiatas (forget what they are called at the moment)

I gotta think Autocross and these wheels....cracking is going to take WAY WAY more than 3 years.

Right ????
Old 11-30-2012 | 02:44 PM
  #44  
Izzone's Avatar
Izzone
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,342
Likes: 295
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Nick Wong
Painted or powder coated? I think yours are painted or anodized, no? And yes, you beat the living crap out of your wheels. Quite a testament to the wheel's engineering!
I think they were powdercoated from GMG....for sure not painted

Whatever the finish is it turned purpleish looking
Old 11-30-2012 | 03:51 PM
  #45  
DavidNR's Avatar
DavidNR
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Default

Purplish discoloring is due to heat on black anodizing. My black anodized CCWs did that. Same thing is happening to my centerlocks now.


Quick Reply: What does it take to break a forged wheel?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 07:08 AM.