trakcar 4.0
#78
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#79
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Thanks everyone!!
I'm pretty excited to go pick it up, perhaps I can next week :-)
You are in line behind Savyboy (Negotiated right of first refusal) and SSTHO he certainly has precedence ![jumper](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/jumper.gif)
THANK YOU PETE AND STEPHEN!!
Without these gentlemen this never could have happened, the manner of how we all 3 bought and sold these cars the last few months would be inconceivable to most car buyers and sellers.
These are transactions among good friends with lots of trust involved. Not to mention saintly patience and endurance with the car stealers involved. Truly buying the person/driver over the cars.
You know, it is probabaly my mind tricking me into thinking I like these colors.
I would have NEVER ordered it with white wheels and red interior, I would have ordered the decals though, I like these as much as I dont like them on the 3.8RS.
Now that it came with white wheels and red interior I like it. Partly because the look and partly because that is how they were in most published pictures, but also because only the 4.0 and GT2RS had it as an option. Kinda like a GT3RS.1 should be orange and black, the 4.0 should like this and I am happy that Savyboy is a more qualified and braver car configurater then I am. Everything stays.
Does owning VS looking at a car change your taste or perspective
Anyway I am happy. The light weight, no option configuration just tops it off.
The left coast trip is now much more likely as a Euro trip involves paying off the car. This just became a lot more difficult
Lets start planning right after 48hours ![popcorn](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
No, they are all smarter and know you can go much faster for less money in a very similar car. In a way I prefer they never build a 4.0. I was perfectly happy with my 3.8RS and I think it is fantastic, was going to keep it forever. Then they build the 4.0..I drove it and came away luke warm, same thing, just a bit faster, same fun, same experience..
But OCD would not let go. Just getting it will turn out to be so much less stressful. I had to have it because it exists![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
You should keep it until Porsche Motorsports buys the car back as an R&D project. They should start following you around to Sebring and learn all kinds of stuff they have never been able to witness being done to their cars.
No one runs DE's in the Platinum cup for as little money as you. You're pretty handy and understand and add mods yourself. Me, umm not so much![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Sure, I was thinking to add a 4.0L eventually to my 3.8RS, regear and do some other stuff, but it all takes also away from daily driving enjoyment and I like cars to be as oem as possible for warranty and dependability. When you add it all up and use top notch shops to do it all for you, you get pretty close to the real thing and of course 4.0's can be regeared and run slicks also.
Im not rying to make logic or fooling myself. Buying a 4.0 its not smart money in terms of laptimes. Regear and slicks will be much faster..
Dont flatter yourself too much yet untill I see that 2:18 at Sebring and keep your eyes on the mirrors for other low flying 3.8's.. They entire Gold cup is stepping up with coaches and TSB's to platinum cup level and upping the levels!
We're all running 2:18's this winter. I might not get out of the Gold cup anymore, I might be to worried about scratching or crashing my precious 4.0. I'm not as much worried about quatro Punto Cero as I am about the daredevil coached up drovers in cheater 3.8's on a suicide mission...
All it takes is a ticket to the left coast via Sebring :-)
I think it is faster by 2 seconds at Sebring, Nurburgring numbers would suggest less then that, so we will see.
But even if I cant get to any faster laptimes it wont bother me, I certainly did not get it to go faster, I could have done that for a fraction of the price.
No, Savy offered them to me, they are listed on the For Sale thread at very good prices, but just bying a 4.0 that is so out of my pay scale it is not even funny made that option impossible. I'm surprised I'm still married today.
This one stays stock, it came with bra, LSD and a good allignment. I will add taller uprights, side muffler delete, roll bar and seat belts. Maybe eventually rear toe arms.
Dont we all have 4.0's with Diesel duallies?
Stephen, I have you to thank mostly for joining me on the path to insanity.
Your car will be gassed up, detailed and ready for Sebring when you arrive next month
. Look forward to catching up at the bar at the Chateau!
Same here 1 day makes for a lot of posts. I have family in town, went on some trips and it is just weird how busy work has gotting since I started throwing money away on RS. Must be Karma for something I did in a past life....
I'm pretty excited to go pick it up, perhaps I can next week :-)
![jumper](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/jumper.gif)
THANK YOU PETE AND STEPHEN!!
Without these gentlemen this never could have happened, the manner of how we all 3 bought and sold these cars the last few months would be inconceivable to most car buyers and sellers.
These are transactions among good friends with lots of trust involved. Not to mention saintly patience and endurance with the car stealers involved. Truly buying the person/driver over the cars.
*** white and menstrual red that was Mooty's description
seriously glad you got what you wanted. Life's to short to deny the inner child in all of us.
It will look good on our left coast trip in 2013 and it already knows the tracks so you will have an unfair advantage over me "besides the fact you are a much better drover" ![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Peter aka The Farmer
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
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Peter aka The Farmer
I would have NEVER ordered it with white wheels and red interior, I would have ordered the decals though, I like these as much as I dont like them on the 3.8RS.
Now that it came with white wheels and red interior I like it. Partly because the look and partly because that is how they were in most published pictures, but also because only the 4.0 and GT2RS had it as an option. Kinda like a GT3RS.1 should be orange and black, the 4.0 should like this and I am happy that Savyboy is a more qualified and braver car configurater then I am. Everything stays.
Does owning VS looking at a car change your taste or perspective
![Confused](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
The left coast trip is now much more likely as a Euro trip involves paying off the car. This just became a lot more difficult
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
![popcorn](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
No, they are all smarter and know you can go much faster for less money in a very similar car. In a way I prefer they never build a 4.0. I was perfectly happy with my 3.8RS and I think it is fantastic, was going to keep it forever. Then they build the 4.0..I drove it and came away luke warm, same thing, just a bit faster, same fun, same experience..
But OCD would not let go. Just getting it will turn out to be so much less stressful. I had to have it because it exists
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
No one runs DE's in the Platinum cup for as little money as you. You're pretty handy and understand and add mods yourself. Me, umm not so much
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Sure, I was thinking to add a 4.0L eventually to my 3.8RS, regear and do some other stuff, but it all takes also away from daily driving enjoyment and I like cars to be as oem as possible for warranty and dependability. When you add it all up and use top notch shops to do it all for you, you get pretty close to the real thing and of course 4.0's can be regeared and run slicks also.
Im not rying to make logic or fooling myself. Buying a 4.0 its not smart money in terms of laptimes. Regear and slicks will be much faster..
Dont flatter yourself too much yet untill I see that 2:18 at Sebring and keep your eyes on the mirrors for other low flying 3.8's.. They entire Gold cup is stepping up with coaches and TSB's to platinum cup level and upping the levels!
We're all running 2:18's this winter. I might not get out of the Gold cup anymore, I might be to worried about scratching or crashing my precious 4.0. I'm not as much worried about quatro Punto Cero as I am about the daredevil coached up drovers in cheater 3.8's on a suicide mission...
Road and Track tested the GT3 RS 4.0 and the standard GT3 3.8.
Both cars were tested at the same place in Germany, European versions, the 4.0RS was tested at 83 degrees F, while the GT3 3.8 was tested at 72 degrees F.
GT3 3.8 vs. GT3 RS 4.0
1/4 mile: vs. 11.8 @ 119.5 mph vs. 11.8 @ 122.2mph
0-60mph: 3.7s vs. 3.6s
0-120mph: 11.9s vs 11.5.s
The 4.0RS has 65Hp more than the GT3 3.8, but the torque difference is just 22 ft-lbs, and the extra power in the 4.0RS is just at the end on a very narrow powerband (like my Fiat, the main reason my Fiat feels less powerful than a 500Hp 997Turbo or C6Z06).
The 4.0RS has slightly better handling in straight line than the 3.8RS.
Both cars were tested at the same place in Germany, European versions, the 4.0RS was tested at 83 degrees F, while the GT3 3.8 was tested at 72 degrees F.
GT3 3.8 vs. GT3 RS 4.0
1/4 mile: vs. 11.8 @ 119.5 mph vs. 11.8 @ 122.2mph
0-60mph: 3.7s vs. 3.6s
0-120mph: 11.9s vs 11.5.s
The 4.0RS has 65Hp more than the GT3 3.8, but the torque difference is just 22 ft-lbs, and the extra power in the 4.0RS is just at the end on a very narrow powerband (like my Fiat, the main reason my Fiat feels less powerful than a 500Hp 997Turbo or C6Z06).
The 4.0RS has slightly better handling in straight line than the 3.8RS.
But even if I cant get to any faster laptimes it wont bother me, I certainly did not get it to go faster, I could have done that for a fraction of the price.
This one stays stock, it came with bra, LSD and a good allignment. I will add taller uprights, side muffler delete, roll bar and seat belts. Maybe eventually rear toe arms.
One day late and 5 pages of comments after,... No better way than to do your 10,000th post in this style!
Really happy for you on FINALLY getting a 4.0 with a deal you could live it. Glad you didn't give up looking!
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts between the 3.8 and 4.0 Nov 3/4.
Really happy for you on FINALLY getting a 4.0 with a deal you could live it. Glad you didn't give up looking!
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts between the 3.8 and 4.0 Nov 3/4.
Your car will be gassed up, detailed and ready for Sebring when you arrive next month
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
Same here 1 day makes for a lot of posts. I have family in town, went on some trips and it is just weird how busy work has gotting since I started throwing money away on RS. Must be Karma for something I did in a past life....
#81
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FINALLY! YOU DID IT!
congratulations peter.
awesome, awesome, awesome. great to see car remain in rl family, from one pete to another!
hopefully with no regrets on savy's behalf....it may take a while to sink in though...
full lwt specs including headlamps!
congratulations peter.
awesome, awesome, awesome. great to see car remain in rl family, from one pete to another!
hopefully with no regrets on savy's behalf....it may take a while to sink in though...
full lwt specs including headlamps!
#85
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"Just 22 ft-lbs" really downplays the true benefit of the 4 liter engine. This is a chart I made comparing approximate dynojet wheel torque of the factory 4.0, factory 3.8, and my 996 4.0 before any tuning. It's very basic, but gives you an idea of the engines' powerbands.
The gains between 3000 and 4500 rpm (over a 10% increase over RS 3.8) are HUGE.
By the way, congratulations on the new car. So badass!
#86
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Congrats Peter! I look forward to seeing that car on track in next few months. Also glad the car will be used as intended and not bubble wrapped in some old farts climate controlled garage. Is it too late to get a set of Ray's included from Mr. Savy?
#87
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Serge, great chart, good value.
I have a similar one with the 996 GT3, 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS.
It shows the importance of good gearing, we look to maximize the HP at a given speed, and HP is a consequence for TorquexRPM, but RPM are driven by gearing and actual speed, then we have the limit of the powerband.
Under the assumption that we don't go down to 1st gear, and the fact that 2nd and 3rd gears are the most spaced out gears in the 996 and 997 GT3, still at redline in 2nd gear the upshift to 3rd gear lands at 6,100 rpm (all 997 GT3) or 6200rpm (GT3 RS 3.8 and RS 4.0).
I agree, the gains in the mid-range are huge, but that only helps when driving a GT3 like a Diesel Truck shifting at low RPM. Unless short-shifting, the car needs to be winding up in the high RPM range, in between 5,500rpm and 8,500rpm.
So, a driver that upshift from 2nd to 3rd at 7,500rpm in a 4.0RS (using your chart), lands 3rd at 5500rpm with 314 ft-lbs of torque and what matters==> 323whp. The other drivers in a 3.8RS ran 2nd to redline (8500rpm) and landed the shift at 6,200rpm, 319 ft-lbs of torque and 369whp, 46whp more (somewhere around 50Hp at the crank), the 3.8GT3 RS would out accelerate the 4.0RS in these conditions.
Now, when both the 3.8RS and 4.0RS are driven using the best of their powerbands, the HP difference is still small:
At 5,000rpm the difference is just 25Hp, at 8,000rpm the difference is just 13Hp. The biggest difference using your chart is at 6,000rpm with 32Hp. These differences are too small, for cars in the 450Hp-500Hp range and carrying 3,400 lbs with a driver. A re-geared 3.8RS can match or exceed the HP at speed of the 4.0RS, then there is the other tricks: headers, ecu, sport cats, lightening, etc.
The 4.0RS is the best of all GT3, but it is not massively faster than the 3.8RS, just a tad better. Porsche self-marketing could only get 5 secs at the Ring, while private testings shows a closer gap.
For street driving the 4.0RS should be more fun, because the mid-range difference is bigger.
At Sebring, these two cars are no more than 1 second apart based on equal handling, and all these dyno charts, acceleration tests, etc.
I have a similar one with the 996 GT3, 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS.
It shows the importance of good gearing, we look to maximize the HP at a given speed, and HP is a consequence for TorquexRPM, but RPM are driven by gearing and actual speed, then we have the limit of the powerband.
Under the assumption that we don't go down to 1st gear, and the fact that 2nd and 3rd gears are the most spaced out gears in the 996 and 997 GT3, still at redline in 2nd gear the upshift to 3rd gear lands at 6,100 rpm (all 997 GT3) or 6200rpm (GT3 RS 3.8 and RS 4.0).
I agree, the gains in the mid-range are huge, but that only helps when driving a GT3 like a Diesel Truck shifting at low RPM. Unless short-shifting, the car needs to be winding up in the high RPM range, in between 5,500rpm and 8,500rpm.
So, a driver that upshift from 2nd to 3rd at 7,500rpm in a 4.0RS (using your chart), lands 3rd at 5500rpm with 314 ft-lbs of torque and what matters==> 323whp. The other drivers in a 3.8RS ran 2nd to redline (8500rpm) and landed the shift at 6,200rpm, 319 ft-lbs of torque and 369whp, 46whp more (somewhere around 50Hp at the crank), the 3.8GT3 RS would out accelerate the 4.0RS in these conditions.
Now, when both the 3.8RS and 4.0RS are driven using the best of their powerbands, the HP difference is still small:
At 5,000rpm the difference is just 25Hp, at 8,000rpm the difference is just 13Hp. The biggest difference using your chart is at 6,000rpm with 32Hp. These differences are too small, for cars in the 450Hp-500Hp range and carrying 3,400 lbs with a driver. A re-geared 3.8RS can match or exceed the HP at speed of the 4.0RS, then there is the other tricks: headers, ecu, sport cats, lightening, etc.
The 4.0RS is the best of all GT3, but it is not massively faster than the 3.8RS, just a tad better. Porsche self-marketing could only get 5 secs at the Ring, while private testings shows a closer gap.
For street driving the 4.0RS should be more fun, because the mid-range difference is bigger.
At Sebring, these two cars are no more than 1 second apart based on equal handling, and all these dyno charts, acceleration tests, etc.
#88
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#89
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Congrats Peter I remember how long you looked for a 4.0---good things come to those who wait. Enjoy in good health and look forward to comments on comparison with your former 3.8RS.