paver

Is it a crutch that prevents learning good driving technique?

I have done 6 de's since I started tracking this year, and I finally got to solo last month. My awareness is getting better, but I still have a lot to learn. I have never driven with either one of them off. I know it's saved me from a spin a few times when I made some major mistakes. But do you think it keeps me from getting the feedback of doing something wrong in situations that needed finesse?

I sure as hell don't want to trash the car, but I'm just wondering if there is a lot to be learned from turning it off or just a little to be learned from turning it off.

Thanks guys.

Veloce Raptor

I can't speak for others, Lindsay, but IMHO, try it both ways, because there is something to be learned on & off.

All systems on: it definitely saves the car...and Porsche's SC is about the best there is IMO...pay attention to when it intervenes...if you actually feel it, it has just saved you from something dire. This is a MAJOR LEARNING MOMENT...learn from it!

SC off TC on: it will save you from power on oversteer, and help you learn throttle control

All systems off: it is truly just you and the car, and ...and you will have to be on your game to be smooooooooth and graceful...which is IMHO fast

tcsracing1

On the 997.1 the system works pretty well.... You can run it pretty hard with it turned on without giving up performance.

Best bet is to warm yourself up to it. After a morning at the track, plan on trying it after lunch and baby step your way into it. You will see it is not so bad nor dangerous with responsible driving.

I would also recommend getting the car tail happy in a parking lot to understand what happens and how to work it. Get your comfort level up.

It is nice to run with the training wheels off once your confidence is up. It is a step up the ladder in learning

Just remember what causes mistakes and in the areas of the track that are most common for typical mistakes. Avoid fooling around in those areas with smart driving. Fear coaching

Again, parking lot drifting is a great way to understand the car with the nannies turned off.
That way, if you get a little loose on the track you wont freak out.

got2go

For me it depends on the track and of course conditions. Cold track or wet I leave it on. I never had much if any intervention at Barber. VIR and Road Atlanta I generally turn it off in the dry. I don't personally think it interferes with learning so leave it on at this stage in your journey.

malmasri

If you leave the system on while on track, it will eat your rear pads and rotors quick.
Doubt it will save you from a spin, if you make a big mistake you will lose control with or without the safety electronics.

Bob Rouleau

Are you running on street tires? If so, the only time SC or TC will intervene is if you made a mistake.

If you are smooth, advanced, and have a car set up for race tires then SC and TC will intervene even when it isn't necessary. By the time you reach that stage, you don't need TC and SC anyway The system is calibrated to street tires and doesn't deal well with sticky rubber.

As VR said above if it does intervene, you have had a low cost learning moment. An important learning moment, just a lot cheaper than hitting the wall.

tcsracing1

FWIW i am not a PCA instructor, but i did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night....

savyboy

You are not missing anything as long as you keep learning progressively, a bit at a time (as you should be). The car will still tell you that you f*ced up and you still keep the safety net in place. Win/win. My fastest laptimes have always been with it on and it has saved me from several incidents that could have gone bad wrong.

Back in 2010 I played with turning them off for a couple sessions. It was interesting, and I have never turned them off since.

I love the feeling of the PSM working all 4 wheels as I trailbrake into a high speed, reducing radius, double apex horseshoe If you leave them on, and let them work, I would argue they will help you to be a better driver.

Veloce Raptor

I will offer a small vignette. I have a client/friend who has a 2011 GT2RS. Most badass awesome street car I have ever driven on track. Perfect balance, wonderfully controllable. He runs with seats/harnesses/bar/R6's, and that is it.

First time I drove the car, I left everything on first few laps, then gradually turned off all the systems as I got a feel for how the car trail braked & delivered power. Mind you, this car is 650hp!! But you know what? As Bob says, if you're smooth and graceful, it doesn't need anything. And now, every time I drive it, all systems are off.

The owner used to leave systems on & overdrive the car...and the systems saved him nearly every corner. Got him driving a lot smoother, more in control, using the car better. And you know what? He no longer needs the systems, and he doesn't put a wheel wrong any more!

DavidNR

I would add that if you can see the light flashing a lot to start be careful. Leave it on. If not, depending on your confidence level or if you have any doubts, leave it on to start the session and if you feel comfortable switch the PSM off first then the TC. As long as you can catch the car in small slips and you are not making gross mistakes. Have fun and be safe!

GT3DE

Impossible to drive the car fast on R-comp tires with nannies on. So it is up to you. Do you feel lucky?

Wanna see what no nannies look like at the ragged edge? click one of the links in my signature...

NJMP - that is me in front of the camera car on 14 heat cycle slicks with no nannies...

Summit Point - that is me in front of camera car on old and cold R6's on the warmup lap...

Sebring - that is me on 30 heat cycle R6 going flat thru Bishops Bend...

all learning experiences (learning how to catch the car - or not!)

paver

Thanks for the quick responses. Yep, I'm on street tires(MPSS).

I have been wondering if there are times when it came on without me being aware of it. Is it always VERY noticeable?

I see it(TC?) light up on the cluster fairly often topping the hill at T4 Barber and at full throttle 2nd gear coming out of T5 at Barber. If i''m not mistaken that's just some wheel slip. The car never feels out of sorts at either of those places.

My owner's manual says SC works the independent brake function and that turning off SC activates a "sportier" TC.

I need to find a parking lot to play around in....

aussie jimmy

i did this on my learner's permit - these days they put in concrete dividers and planters when building new lots.

aussie jimmy

paver - you will know when you are ready to turn them off.
if you are smooth, you don't need them, just like the famous trackcar and rikki bobbi

paver

rikki bobbi finally gets the recognition he deserves!!