4.0 back on ebay again
09-13-2012, 11:53 AM
#17
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Scarcity is the primary determinant of value of any item. The fact is there are only approx 130 GT3RS 4.0 in the USA. Less than three per state if you want to look at it that way. There will never be any more built.
The 991 GT3 is the non-Mezger DFI motor which doesn't rev as high. PDK trans only. Electric steering. Better/worse, who knows but the fact is it is a totally different car than the 997 .2 GT3 car.
So there is a case to be made for 4.0 ownership. Where is the "fair" price? I'd argue $200k and that this price will hold for many years. Not unlike a CGT. Yes, it is the same body shell that Porsche has used for a long time. However the engine/suspension combination is a masterpiece for track use in both skilled and hamfisted hands.
The 991 GT3 is the non-Mezger DFI motor which doesn't rev as high. PDK trans only. Electric steering. Better/worse, who knows but the fact is it is a totally different car than the 997 .2 GT3 car.
So there is a case to be made for 4.0 ownership. Where is the "fair" price? I'd argue $200k and that this price will hold for many years. Not unlike a CGT. Yes, it is the same body shell that Porsche has used for a long time. However the engine/suspension combination is a masterpiece for track use in both skilled and hamfisted hands.
On the other hand, perhaps there are 130 bubble-wrappers in the US for whom orginality trumps performance....
09-13-2012, 11:54 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
in 2 years after new generation of RS cars will hit dealerships no one will care about 4.0RS more than people care now about 996 gt3 cars.
i just do not see any 997 car, .1 or .2 as a long term colectable item. current price level for 4.0RS is just a temporary madness and it will pass.
i just do not see any 997 car, .1 or .2 as a long term colectable item. current price level for 4.0RS is just a temporary madness and it will pass.
09-13-2012, 11:55 AM
#19
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09-13-2012, 12:03 PM
#21
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Has Porsche released the spec on the new engine yet? While it most likely will be DFI, I'd guess it will get the usual hot rod tricks that GT3 engines get (Ti rods, for example) and will allow it to rev higher than the regular version... at least I hope so in order to separate the GT3 model from the Carrera S / GTS models.
09-13-2012, 12:10 PM
#22
The problem I see with this argument is that you can build a better/faster 4.0. You can buy better suspension, faster motor, heck can even buy the carbon bits if you want them. Start with the right used RS and you can do it for less. Good luck trying to do the same with a CGT....
On the other hand, perhaps there are 130 bubble-wrappers in the US for whom orginality trumps performance....
On the other hand, perhaps there are 130 bubble-wrappers in the US for whom orginality trumps performance....
$35k 4.0 conversion
$16k carbon hood/fenders
$8k suspension
$8k exhaust (4.0 OE has 300 cell cats)
$3k 4.0 exclusive ABS with new slicks friendly parameters (no ice brake)
$8k FLICS/bigger rear wing/wing side plates
$198k
No warranty. No resale. Show me your analysis?
in 2 years after new generation of RS cars will hit dealerships no one will care about 4.0RS more than people care now about 996 gt3 cars.
i just do not see any 997 car, .1 or .2 as a long term colectable item. current price level for 4.0RS is just a temporary madness and it will pass.
i just do not see any 997 car, .1 or .2 as a long term colectable item. current price level for 4.0RS is just a temporary madness and it will pass.
09-13-2012, 12:33 PM
#23
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$120k Used RS
$35k 4.0 conversion
$16k carbon hood/fenders
$8k suspension
$8k exhaust (4.0 OE has 300 cell cats)
$3k 4.0 exclusive ABS with new slicks friendly parameters (no ice brake)
$8k FLICS/bigger rear wing/wing side plates
$198k
No warranty. No resale. Show me your analysis?
$35k 4.0 conversion
$16k carbon hood/fenders
$8k suspension
$8k exhaust (4.0 OE has 300 cell cats)
$3k 4.0 exclusive ABS with new slicks friendly parameters (no ice brake)
$8k FLICS/bigger rear wing/wing side plates
$198k
No warranty. No resale. Show me your analysis?
And P.S, what warranty?
09-13-2012, 12:34 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
The interior on the ugly 2005 is the same as the super rare $200k plus 4.0
you might be on to something
I'll just keep my Fiat hunt going.......I need a prancing horse
We shoudl start a bet of how long it will take for teh 4.0 value to tank lower than a SCUD (assuming $185k for SCUD)......LOL
I say 13 months
you might be on to something
I'll just keep my Fiat hunt going.......I need a prancing horse
We shoudl start a bet of how long it will take for teh 4.0 value to tank lower than a SCUD (assuming $185k for SCUD)......LOL
I say 13 months
Peter
09-13-2012, 12:37 PM
#25
I'm open minded to the whole better/faster/replicate discussion. But I've yet to see it executed in reality as opposed to forum banter. All the various 4.x litre engine builds from the aftermarket, where are they on track? Where is the longevity proof? Lot's of sizzle, no steak. Sharkwerks is currently the only one I would even consider (and a 3.8 w/Akrapovic and tune is as fast) and resale is dreadful after you do it, I know personally of one that changed hands.
How about the time, expertise and expense to sort out all the crap that comes up during these builds, what is the value of that? Having personally, with my own hands, done some aggressive mods on multiple cars, I can tell you first hand, it is monumentally time consuming and costly to obtain a well-sorted finished product.
Warren, of course I am not on the attack here
But my tone is as it is in person, enthusiastic and willing to analyze a point.Not a slam on Sharky above! I love those guys!
Only shop I would trust with such a project if I were to undertake it.
09-13-2012, 12:38 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
09-13-2012, 12:43 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
all i say - those who want to get premium and benefit from $200K+ price level imho should sell it now.
plus, no one gets 'used RS' as a donor. there are plenty of Koni and similar 997.1 based grandam cars that do already have full cage, are perfectly stiff, and most likely already have full cup car aero. all what is left is a motor, gearbox, may be racing ABS and custom ECU if you want to build sommething like Mobonic just did.
it is same thing i do not get about 4.0RS - it has a lot of track oriented mods yet it is still outclassed by any cup car and not competitive against them. it has very narrow usage area - perhaps as a nice DE car that is fast enough but not yet where cup cars or properly modified 997.1 race car would be.
BUT this is a street car that goes almost as fast as a race car - with NO SAFETY, no cage, no fire suppression and on idiotic street centerlocks, so, i would ask here a sanity question - why to do that? there is a limit after which it simply starts to make sense to protect yourself. and if you do not put 4.0RS on a track - i see no use for it at all.
plus, no one gets 'used RS' as a donor. there are plenty of Koni and similar 997.1 based grandam cars that do already have full cage, are perfectly stiff, and most likely already have full cup car aero. all what is left is a motor, gearbox, may be racing ABS and custom ECU if you want to build sommething like Mobonic just did.
it is same thing i do not get about 4.0RS - it has a lot of track oriented mods yet it is still outclassed by any cup car and not competitive against them. it has very narrow usage area - perhaps as a nice DE car that is fast enough but not yet where cup cars or properly modified 997.1 race car would be.
BUT this is a street car that goes almost as fast as a race car - with NO SAFETY, no cage, no fire suppression and on idiotic street centerlocks, so, i would ask here a sanity question - why to do that? there is a limit after which it simply starts to make sense to protect yourself. and if you do not put 4.0RS on a track - i see no use for it at all.
09-13-2012, 01:04 PM
#28
all i say - those who want to get premium and benefit from $200K+ price level imho should sell it now.
plus, no one gets 'used RS' as a donor. there are plenty of Koni and similar 997.1 based grandam cars that do already have full cage, are perfectly stiff, and most likely already have full cup car aero. all what is left is a motor, gearbox, may be racing ABS and custom ECU if you want to build sommething like Mobonic just did.
it is same thing i do not get about 4.0RS - it has a lot of track oriented mods yet it is still outclassed by any cup car and not competitive against them. it has very narrow usage area - perhaps as a nice DE car that is fast enough but not yet where cup cars or properly modified 997.1 race car would be.
BUT this is a street car that goes almost as fast as a race car - with NO SAFETY, no cage, no fire suppression and on idiotic street centerlocks, so, i would ask here a sanity question - why to do that? there is a limit after which it simply starts to make sense to protect yourself. and if you do not put 4.0RS on a track - i see no use for it at all.
plus, no one gets 'used RS' as a donor. there are plenty of Koni and similar 997.1 based grandam cars that do already have full cage, are perfectly stiff, and most likely already have full cup car aero. all what is left is a motor, gearbox, may be racing ABS and custom ECU if you want to build sommething like Mobonic just did.
it is same thing i do not get about 4.0RS - it has a lot of track oriented mods yet it is still outclassed by any cup car and not competitive against them. it has very narrow usage area - perhaps as a nice DE car that is fast enough but not yet where cup cars or properly modified 997.1 race car would be.
BUT this is a street car that goes almost as fast as a race car - with NO SAFETY, no cage, no fire suppression and on idiotic street centerlocks, so, i would ask here a sanity question - why to do that? there is a limit after which it simply starts to make sense to protect yourself. and if you do not put 4.0RS on a track - i see no use for it at all.
Turn-key, no set-up hassle performance out of the box with a warranty. That is where the the value is for a 4.0 owner.
09-13-2012, 01:47 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
The bottom line is the 4.0 is currently the Porsche to drive to the track, set a GT3 lap time record, and drive home. I know several 4.0 owners who also own or owned (and sold/are selling) their Cup car. Read into that what you will.
Turn-key, no set-up hassle performance out of the box with a warranty. That is where the the value is for a 4.0 owner.
Turn-key, no set-up hassle performance out of the box with a warranty. That is where the the value is for a 4.0 owner.
09-13-2012, 02:17 PM
#30
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BUT this is a street car that goes almost as fast as a race car - with NO SAFETY, no cage, no fire suppression and on idiotic street centerlocks, so, i would ask here a sanity question - why to do that? there is a limit after which it simply starts to make sense to protect yourself. and if you do not put 4.0RS on a track - i see no use for it at all.