Gibbo

Hi there

OK lets not fool anyone, a C2S is a great car, but it is not a GT3 and no matter of modding will make it a GT3 or handle as good as one, but I want to make my car handle best I can.

A low-down on my current car spec:-

2006 C2S Manual
PASM
Aerokit
PCCB
Rear seats removed & subwoofer, front trunk lining removing.
X51 manifolds, undertrays, intake etc. So circa 380BHP / 310lb/ft.
997.2 GT3 Shifter
997.2 GT3 front/rear arbs (not installed yet) with 997.2 bushes
996 GT3 LCA's / bushes
MPSS tyres all round (235/35/19 & 295/30/19)
7mm front spacers
5mm rear spacers
Cars weight with fuel = 1415kg


I am yet to install the GT3 997.2 front/rear ARBS and 996 GT3 LCA's, these shall be professionally done by an allignment shop, but was hoping you guys could help me with what settings would be ideal.

Right now the car understeers quite badly, pushes a lot and even though its quick on track, I want less push and more overall grip. Car currently has -1degree front camber and like -1.3degree rear camber.

I want the car to handle more closer to neutral with just a touch of understeer dialed in which with a bit more induced throttle will easily turn into progressive and easily controlled oversteer along with more overall grip.

The car is a daily driver in both dry/wet and I do 5-6 track events per year.

1. Front ARB which setting is best?
2. Rear ARB which setting is best?
3. How much front negative camber should we aim for?
4. How much rear negative camber should we aim for?
5. Any other important toe/castor settings to aim for?


With the above and the spec of the car all fitted and GEO done, can I expect quite a nice improvement in both how the car drives along with its overall grip levels etc?

What else should I consider modding on the car which could improve it more so? Is GT3 997.1 PASM compatible with my 997.1 C2S, is it any different/better, worthwhile?

jenk12m

Why not get a 07-08 gt3 or RS

LVDell

As Mike said, why not get a 3? By the time you add up all the mods you'll have to invest to get the handling you so desire you could have put that $$$ and the sale of your Carrera toward the purchase of a car that does just that. My guess is that you'll be very close in cost.

icatto

Hi.
After tracking my '05 C2 for 6 years, I considered doing exactly what you describe.
And while recently searching for a nice 06-07 C2S to use as a base car to modify, stumbled upon a very sweet '10 GT3.
My life (and wallet) haven't been the same.
You can put together a very nice car, but it will not be the same.

That said, since you'll be installing the GT3 LCA and sway bars, that will make a huge difference in your handling. Those items will be the bulk of your handling improvement. You should also couple that with Bilstein PSS9s and you will be in great shape.
(I would suggest you eventually dump the PCCB rotors and convert to steel.Others may have different valid opinions.)

Lastly, I think you should let a good reputable shop suggest the camber settings for your car based on the track tires you will be using and type of tracks you will be driving. The right shop should have the experience to already know a good starting point.
Different brands wear differently. Sometimes you need to do a few runs to see where to adjust.
Even those settings will probably be dialed back because you will be using a street/track setup for your daily driver.

Good luck!

-Alex-

NorthVan

I tired to do it with my 06 C2S, had a just about every mod you could get, and I found out the expensive was that it would never be the same.

Get a GT3 and you will not stop smiling

TTurbine

Save your money , and get a GT3

icatto

Sorry, one more thing...
Consider getting a good set of 18" wheels for the track.
I use 18s on both my C2 and GT3 for the track and save the 19s for the street.
The 8.5 and 12X18 OZ Racing wheels on Tirerack are good and at the right price.
I ran Nitto NT01 245 and 315 X18 on my C2. Great tire for the money. Saved a fortune.
Same setup doesn't work for the GT3, and must I run more expensive (and less durable) Hoosiers now.

Good luck!

-Alex-

icatto

He's already in quite a few $.
Might as well see it through.
But NorthVan is right, get a GT3 and you won't stop smiling...until you look in your wallet.
:-)

NorthVan

Not True, there are some great deals on 997.1 GT3's, mine was heavily modded for the track (saved me the cost of doing the work)

Gibbo

This!

The ARB's and lower arms have cost me less than 1k and I've got them. So the only extra money I am spending now is for the shop to install and allign them.

Going a GT3 will cost me like 20-30k more, wheras to complete what I've posted above will now cost me sub 1k. So its a lot more for a GT3 and a GT3 is something I intend on doing in 1-2yr, but for now need to make the C2S do.

So if anyone can suggest some allignment numbers and other suggestions be great, but I don't want to put much more money into the car because like many of you have said, save for a GT3.

997gt3north

I won't tell you to do what Mike and Dell did (but you should), I will answer your question.

1. Front ARB which setting is best? (middle)
2. Rear ARB which setting is best? (soft)
3. How much front negative camber should we aim for? (-2.3)
4. How much rear negative camber should we aim for? (-1.8)
5. Any other important toe/castor settings to aim for? (Toe: F=0, R=0.25 degree IN per side)

With the above and the spec of the car all fitted and GEO done, can I expect quite a nice improvement in both how the car drives along with its overall grip levels etc? (It will be better but you will still have soft spring rates and a car that does not run the same ride height F/R as a GT3 - or front and rear aero - or a LSD)

What else should I consider modding on the car which could improve it more so? Is GT3 997.1 PASM compatible with my 997.1 C2S, is it any different/better, worthwhile? (PASM has been improved with the 2010/11 GT2/3s over the 2006/07 but that isn't really your issue - it is the entire suspension setup which includes the stiffer spring rates and the correctly valved shocks for those spring rates + ride height + aero)

Your car will for sure be more enjoyable with 'better' ARBs and a 'better' hybrid alignment (see above) - but you also won't have a LSD which helps under braking and getting out of 2nd gear corners.

In terms of 'improvement' / lap times - that's a tough one and really unknowable. That said, from your driving perspective, if you can now be in a car that is at least neutral versus constantly ploughing, then your enjoyment will be higher and you will now be able to work on other things at the track as oppose to waiting for the car to turn every corner.

Word of caution - once a car no longer ploughs it is a pretty fair statement that it isn't as safe. It is not uncommon for everyone that has learned to drive a gt3 to have looped the car more than once while learning to drive it. I would hazard a guess that everyone that didn't start as a pro with a gt3 on here can tell you how many times they have looped it, which corner, which track, etc.

If you want an idea what driving a street gt3 is like when it is setup to go fast, go to the Mancation thread and look at some of the very recent videos posted - in virtually every corner the boys are counter steering every time - all the time. I'm guessing that is not what it is like to drive your car currently. There is nothing wrong with having the car setup this way, it is how almost every single gt3 that goes to the track is setup (we all use 'similar' alignments) - just want to point this out to you.

My advise would however be to sell your car as is and get a gt3.

That is not always in the budget I understand, but when you properly consider resale then it may not be as different as you think - go try and sell a highly modified for the track 2006C2S and see what you can actually get and then compare this is undoing everything you have done, selling the car close to stock and then using the money + $20k to buy a 2007gt3 with 20,000 miles and all you have to do is spend $250 on an alignment (which it will probably already have and with a documented race shop that takes care of it) - and if you change your mind you can sell it for what you bought it for in 2 weeks.

Think about it - good luck.

tcsracing1

trade up to a 997 GT3.

OR,

throw the Tarrett catalog at the car and when you do decide to step up to a GT3 some of the parts will bolt right on a GT3 which is great for the budget.


With the proper suspension and alignment you can have a good time in a C2S.
The koni challenge cars (carrera S models) with track tune/alignment are quite fast!

deputydog95

GT3North: You post too much to have that avatar. I don't want to see Peter and Randy's ugly mug every time I come on here.... Feel free to use as much Sly as you like though.

mobonic

GT3 LCA are a must!!! 80% of the understeer will go away.

I have done everything you can do and more to a C2S, so I know.

Get these mods and enjoy the car:
GT3 LCA
stiffer sway bars ( I have a set of RSS front and rear for sale off my car)
solid dog bones and toe links (will transfer to any 997 in future)
better shocks ( I have a set of JRZ RS PRO 2 way adjustable for sale)
track brake fluid ( I like Motul & Brembo)and pads ( I like PFC 08)

mobonic

BTW I have the following for sale for a 997 C2 & C2S

1. RSS Say Bars Front and Rear
2. JRZ RS Pro 2 Way Shocks (half price of new)
3. Stoptech ST-60 6 Piston Front BBK with 380mm 2 piece rotors (stops on a dime!)