No... not false....opinions are 1 thing and cool to share...but they way most of you talk about PDK it's obvious you have never driven PDK on the track for any length of time.

Look at it this way....I can't drive a manual as you might know...so for me to comment on this manual sucks and this other manual is better...because....well that would be false because I wouldn't know what the heck I was talking about because I've never driven a manual not the track. You guys talking about pdk is the same exact thing....you don't really know.

 

PDK offers faster lap times & increases the drivers' ego. I hear these PDK guys brag at the track that they "won their DE" and that they are "natural talents".

Sure, it is fun to drive even faster on the track... But it is a cheater car, pure and simple... One less (and very challenging) skill to learn.

Now where did I leave my Rennline hand-crank starter????

-B

 

i dont really give a hoot about gear box.
just make it fast, cheap, reliable.

 

A faster shifting transmission is "cheating", but more HP, tweaked suspension, bigger spoilers, uprated brakes, etc. aren't? All of those improvements can make it easier for a driver to go fast. Do you think all performance upgrades are "cheating"? After all, not everyone has them. Why not track a base 911 or some other less capable car, and if you can keep up in that you'll really have had a chance to showcase your skills. Just sayin.....

 

All arguments against technology are futile.

Technology will assimilate your cars, resistance is futile.

 

I'm all for pedal-car track days, but that isn't really any fun now is it?

My point is that a key SKILL of driving on the track has been taken off the table... With one less skill to master, I think we can all agree that driving has become even easier and their is less to differentiate the drivers.

I've been watching baseball tonight, so just came up with a backyard baseball analogy..... Think of PDK as a whiffle ball, and a MANUAL as a baseball. Which "tool" makes it easier to throw a curveball?

I like calling everything a CHEATER... That seems to rile up this board!

-B

 

you guys are all off the point of the original post.

we are talking about manual transmissions exclusively, or should be. the PDK is it's own thing. Leave MDrums alone- he needs a PDK and I'm all for that.

I'm somewhat appalled at the current GT3 manual transmission being anything other than slightly modified for the future gt3. It's the best and most robust manual transmission in any car- period. I love manual transmissions and they have their place...my 599 GTB was a manual tranny and I loved that visceral feel.

this new bastardized rotary geared 7 speed manual has no place in the gt3, in my opinion. if they're gonna change it, they should use the 6 speed from the new Turbo- still a "normal" manual transmission- and to be honest I think that's what will happen. There is no reason for a 7th gear in a GT3, hell in all my track days (including running at Fontana topping out at 165mph or so) I never even NEEDED 6th.

porsche: please keep the manual strong, robust, and with that rifle bolt feel of the 997GT3. don't use this BS 991 tranny from the carrera.

 

+1. I don't understand why the current MT couldn't be used. Most likely it is the cost of continuing to make it for such a small number of cars. I agree with you- it's a great set up as it is currently.

 

Well I dont know about you, but I don't spend much time shifting mid corner, so I don't need to drive a Pdk on the track to know its less involving, heavier, costlier to repair and replace, or that I don't want one. Facts can be argued, you can't eliminate someone's opinion because you don't like it.

Neither do you get to create criteria by which people can make a valid assessment

 

Cost basis is why the all 911s will eventually have derivatives of the same basic engine and gearbox.

Personally I think that the GT3 should and will be offered in manual or PDK, as I'm sure they'll also do the same with the Turbo. If the internals are rated for the power, then it's easy to offer both versions as per the base cars.

That said the only twin-clutch cars I've ever driven are the Veyron (on road only) and the GTR (on road and several tracks) and neither car would have been improved by fitting a manual gearbox........

 

Some items to remember

Manual gearbox warranty claims are too expensive (confirmed to me by both Porsche and Audi execs during a Le Mans weekend)

Developing a production gearbox from scratch is too expensive for PAG, its a VAG thing and even then largely done by Ricardo - http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/Our-Mar...Transmissions/ -

If 911 drivers didn't break their drive trains with such monotonous regularity, there would be less push for a semi-automated solution.


Food for thought

Generalising like anything, Japanese drivers are not good at manipulating manual gearboxes, so Japanese car manufacturers have had to source bulletproof boxes that can cope with inadvertent ad deliberate abuse. http://www.aisin.com/product/automot...ain/index.html - for example

If you get the opportunity it's worth driving both the manual and flappy paddled Gallardo for comparison purposes. I like both of them unlike the R8's hideous double clutch mash-up (oops its not a mash-up its elegant modern design, not). So drive all three and decide which way you want PAG to go. I pick this comparison as PAG, Audi, VAG, Lamborghini all share development projects.

R+C

 

I have always driven manual cars till recently (My daily driver is for the first time an automatic Merc C300). I recently purchased a VW Golf GTI for my daughter and had a chance to drive that round town in a spirited fashion. I have to say it was certainly not boring or took away from the fun of driving and was leagues ahead of any autbox I have driven.

If "flappy paddles" become the norm I think I will adapt easily.

Yes I can heel and toe and love driving a manual on track. But when ABS first came along that was also criticised for taking away a skill set and dumbing down the pleasure of driving, if I remember correctly.

 

Huh? what did I ever say about shifting mid corner?....Fine if you don't want a pdk...that is not what we are talking about. I can eliminate your opinion because how can you form an educated opinion on PDK if you've never driven one? That's like me saying your 996 GT2 Turbo stinks because of turbo lag...heck I don't know...never driven one.

I'm not saying PDK is better than manual...but you are arguing that manual is better than pdk....that makes zero sense...I'm not saying PDK is the end all...but you need to understand that PDK or any sequential (single or dual clutch) just doesn't suck because of weight or cost or is not as good as your manual you love to drive.

 

Why are you jumping to conclusions, I've driven one, just not on track, which by your previous statement means I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm trying to determine how driving one fast on the street makes ones opinion void vs driving one fast on the track. Please explain.

The difference is that I don't care if people think my car stinks. I've had plenty of GT3 guys scoff at my car, and even more people tell me what it can't do. One guy called it a fake GT2RS right in my face (didn't know it was my car). That doesn't degrade my enjoyment 1 iota. I'm cool with it because I enjoy it.

How am I arguing that manual is better than PDK? I've said nothing of the sort. The are pro's and con's for each, and no one has said otherwise. No one has said that PDK shouldn't exist, or sucks, you are blowing this completely out of proportion. Feel free to calm down now. It's just a debate of the merit's of each based on preference and opinion. Nothing is being signed into law.

 

Those that say the PDK brings a weight penalty to the GT3's performance is wrong as the weight is increased by location to improve the overall weight distribution towards the center of mass. The location of the gearbox in a 911 is right over the driveshaft, and in the newly stretched 991 the center of mass has been moved closer to the center of the car. Also the PDK is bulletproof from accidental over-revs due to missed-shifts and/or bad mistakes from clumsy drivers. Also for track driving it frees the novice driver from having to assimilate more tasks in addition to looking at flag stations, apexes, track marks, etc and allows them to keep both hands at the 9 and 3 position of the steering wheel at all times.