A prelude to my dream car ...
05-30-2012, 02:12 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Not in my case with my travel over Snoqualmie and all the showers we get. These shots attached were with the C4S. One can argue that the Cayenne is better suited for this weather though.
But the C4S is PDK. I love PDK for DD but on the track I would love to learn with a 6speed before graduating onto a RS. Am I wrong in that thought process ?One could argue that I could have traded my C4S to a manual 997 (? GTS), use it as a DD, track it and evenutally move on to a RS but I would still lose quite a bit of valuable dollars on essentially somewhat of a lateral move which I could use for my RS purchase. My track car on the other hand won't lose much value when it is time to say good bye to it. Hence I did what I did. Time will tell if this is the right move but I love to hear all these thoughts.
Out of curiosity, who here would agree with me that out of the 3 cars the OP has, the 09 C4S would be the best car to start with his first few times out, and not the race prepped '86 911?
I don't blame him for his choice, because I would likely have done the same a few years ago. However, knowing what I know now, C4S to start with and go from there
If anyone argued that if his ultimate goal is an RS, to start with his C4S and then go straight to the RS and bypass the race prepped '86 911, I would vote for that too.
I don't blame him for his choice, because I would likely have done the same a few years ago. However, knowing what I know now, C4S to start with and go from there
If anyone argued that if his ultimate goal is an RS, to start with his C4S and then go straight to the RS and bypass the race prepped '86 911, I would vote for that too.
05-30-2012, 02:50 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
this thread is all about talk and no action.
report back after your first track day in July and then we can talk again. Any of your 911 is fully capable for a beginner track day. Don't think too much about which car to use or to get, the limiting factor is always the driver.
report back after your first track day in July and then we can talk again. Any of your 911 is fully capable for a beginner track day. Don't think too much about which car to use or to get, the limiting factor is always the driver.
05-30-2012, 04:23 PM
#64
Race Director
Amar, just my $.02. Before buying a dedicated track car, personally I would have suggested that you run your C4S or even the 3.2 Carrera in a couple of local autocrosses. Try a a few DE's in your C4S. Enroll in a good driving school. If at that point, after deciding whether you really have the bug, and whether the considerable time and financial committment to tracking is going to fit in with your committment to your two medical practices and your family, I would have advised that you sit down and decide what you really expect from your stable of cars. An RS is not ideal for getting you over the Snoqualmie in the winter, based on your photo and others that you've posted. Living where you do in Washington, are you ready to give up the all around capability of your C4S? How many Porsches do you want to own and have time and room for? What other cars do you own that your family needs for everyday use? Depending on the answers to those questions, and assuming that you actually still wanted to track a car, I probably would have skipped the '76, nice as it is, and found your "dream" RS.
But that's water under the bridge. At this point, you've invested in a track car; get it out on the track, even if it's "just" an afternoon at a local PCA autocross. Get some real as opposed to verbal feedback so you can decide if tracking is really for you. That feedback will go a long way toward helping you decide if the RS is the tool you need to expand your experience or just something that you'd like to drive occasionally and admire in your collection. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, although it would be something of a waste.
Get that new race car on track, and spin some wheels for real before spinning them mentally any further.
But that's water under the bridge. At this point, you've invested in a track car; get it out on the track, even if it's "just" an afternoon at a local PCA autocross. Get some real as opposed to verbal feedback so you can decide if tracking is really for you. That feedback will go a long way toward helping you decide if the RS is the tool you need to expand your experience or just something that you'd like to drive occasionally and admire in your collection. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, although it would be something of a waste.
Get that new race car on track, and spin some wheels for real before spinning them mentally any further.
05-30-2012, 04:54 PM
#66
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A good driver in a 997.2 C4S PDK can easily keep up with a 997.2 GT3 RS (with the average drivers out there anyway).
The 996 GT3 has zero nannies, except ABS. Look for a car with track preparation but still street legal. A well driven 996 GT3 is a radically different experience that a 997.2 Carrera 4S, and probably as fast as each other, more fun to drive than a 997.2 GT3 RS, more involving too, slightly slower but not by much.
The 996 GT3 is more challenging to drive fast, more sensitive to driver inputs, but more rewarding as well. I once got caught in the snow at Pocono racetrack, most cars in the advanced group pulled to the pits, an instructor took out a Cayenne Turbo and lapped everybody, except my car, I went to the garage, installed my Summer tires (PS2 michelin) went out and made the instructor give me a point by to his amusement, then we joke about it in the freezing garage. The 996 GT3 has the feedback that was lost in the newer generation cars.
They are in the $45k-$50k range, get $20k for your Carrera, and you keep your 2 other nice VW.
The cost of running an old 911 (pre-1999 cars) is significant, they break all sort of stuff, unless they have been modified extremely, at which point their price is on par with a good sorted out 996 GT3.
05-30-2012, 05:29 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Hope you take no offense to my post, but you really need to try track day first. My two brothers tried but will not do it again. They only drive their Porsches on the street and still greatly enjoyed their cars.
05-30-2012, 07:04 PM
#70
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Once you go RS you never go back!
Sell the C4S and the 76' 911 to buy RS.
Keep the 86' for nostalgia sake.
Use cayenne as 4x4 foul weather daily driver.
Sell the C4S and the 76' 911 to buy RS.
Keep the 86' for nostalgia sake.
Use cayenne as 4x4 foul weather daily driver.
05-31-2012, 01:14 AM
#71
Nordschleife Master
Get a 996 GT3, sell the 86 911, keep your Cayenne, keep your 997.2 C4S PDK.
A good driver in a 997.2 C4S PDK can easily keep up with a 997.2 GT3 RS (with the average drivers out there anyway).
The 996 GT3 has zero nannies, except ABS. Look for a car with track preparation but still street legal. A well driven 996 GT3 is a radically different experience that a 997.2 Carrera 4S, and probably as fast as each other, more fun to drive than a 997.2 GT3 RS, more involving too, slightly slower but not by much.
The 996 GT3 is more challenging to drive fast, more sensitive to driver inputs, but more rewarding as well. I once got caught in the snow at Pocono racetrack, most cars in the advanced group pulled to the pits, an instructor took out a Cayenne Turbo and lapped everybody, except my car, I went to the garage, installed my Summer tires (PS2 michelin) went out and made the instructor give me a point by to his amusement, then we joke about it in the freezing garage. The 996 GT3 has the feedback that was lost in the newer generation cars.
They are in the $45k-$50k range, get $20k for your Carrera, and you keep your 2 other nice VW.
The cost of running an old 911 (pre-1999 cars) is significant, they break all sort of stuff, unless they have been modified extremely, at which point their price is on par with a good sorted out 996 GT3.
A good driver in a 997.2 C4S PDK can easily keep up with a 997.2 GT3 RS (with the average drivers out there anyway).
The 996 GT3 has zero nannies, except ABS. Look for a car with track preparation but still street legal. A well driven 996 GT3 is a radically different experience that a 997.2 Carrera 4S, and probably as fast as each other, more fun to drive than a 997.2 GT3 RS, more involving too, slightly slower but not by much.
The 996 GT3 is more challenging to drive fast, more sensitive to driver inputs, but more rewarding as well. I once got caught in the snow at Pocono racetrack, most cars in the advanced group pulled to the pits, an instructor took out a Cayenne Turbo and lapped everybody, except my car, I went to the garage, installed my Summer tires (PS2 michelin) went out and made the instructor give me a point by to his amusement, then we joke about it in the freezing garage. The 996 GT3 has the feedback that was lost in the newer generation cars.
They are in the $45k-$50k range, get $20k for your Carrera, and you keep your 2 other nice VW.
The cost of running an old 911 (pre-1999 cars) is significant, they break all sort of stuff, unless they have been modified extremely, at which point their price is on par with a good sorted out 996 GT3.
06-05-2012, 02:18 AM
#72
Nordschleife Master
w00tPORSCHE is a Porsche enthusiast and he's planning his path into performance driving. He says his dedicated classic track car is 'training wheels' to a future RS. Maybe... or w00tPORSCHE may find his classic track car more fun. 
And yes, he's already tracked it, and he's hooked.
BTW... it's not always the latest and greatest the more fun to drive. It all depends what one is after.
And yes, he's already tracked it, and he's hooked. BTW... it's not always the latest and greatest the more fun to drive. It all depends what one is after.
06-05-2012, 02:46 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes .. With two days to go for my travel
abroad, I had the opportunity to go to the track for the first time ever
through Don Kitch's racing school. Fellow rennlister Ed, prepared the car for me (as I had literally no time for the nitty gritty details like removing the carper, inflating tires etc) and I drove it to Pacific raceway and did 4 sessions
of twenty minutes each with a young coach. The words is that he is probably on par with the best of the best. Boy did I love the car, the coach and the lapping session or what. The mix of racing sparseness, the agility and full of feel characteristics of this lightweight '76 chassis, the mechanical throws of the 915/wevo set up and the euro spec'd 3.2 motor roar and air intake had me mesmerized. I'm still grinning 48 hours later. Had a chance to lock up my non ABS car a few times under a controlled environment too. I already have a follow up track session lines up one week after my return from India. My coach told me that if I could properly learn to drive this car, I can drive any other car in this world. I'm proud of my choice for a training wheel.
abroad, I had the opportunity to go to the track for the first time ever
through Don Kitch's racing school. Fellow rennlister Ed, prepared the car for me (as I had literally no time for the nitty gritty details like removing the carper, inflating tires etc) and I drove it to Pacific raceway and did 4 sessions
of twenty minutes each with a young coach. The words is that he is probably on par with the best of the best. Boy did I love the car, the coach and the lapping session or what. The mix of racing sparseness, the agility and full of feel characteristics of this lightweight '76 chassis, the mechanical throws of the 915/wevo set up and the euro spec'd 3.2 motor roar and air intake had me mesmerized. I'm still grinning 48 hours later. Had a chance to lock up my non ABS car a few times under a controlled environment too. I already have a follow up track session lines up one week after my return from India. My coach told me that if I could properly learn to drive this car, I can drive any other car in this world. I'm proud of my choice for a training wheel.
06-05-2012, 02:53 AM
#74
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I will buzz in - I read some, not all and see a trend in your posts.
I was on the phone with Amar the night he made his mind up to take this road to the RS dream - he told me he had a plan and stated exactly what he wanted to do, and how he planned to get there - after careful consideration I advised him to buy this car.
what do I know....I know Amar, I have driven many times with him and know exactly were he is now. I know this car and the builder, the previous owner and the people who made it. I know the right coaches, the track owners, and am PCA board member on the DE committee.
Amar made the right choice and after several sessions in the car I see something none of you get to see...I see him light up with delight in his choice and affirm his own choice with every drive.
So it's not an RS or a Cup car or an F1 car......He is sooo happy driving it and I think in the end that is all anyone every wanted out of any purchase - not to be told he should have bought something "better"
I admire Amar for his courage to listen to all the posts in this thread and ask for some forgiveness for a man following his dreams the way HE sees fit.....and on his terms....
All the best to those who encourage and what ever to those who cant.
All the best
I was on the phone with Amar the night he made his mind up to take this road to the RS dream - he told me he had a plan and stated exactly what he wanted to do, and how he planned to get there - after careful consideration I advised him to buy this car.
what do I know....I know Amar, I have driven many times with him and know exactly were he is now. I know this car and the builder, the previous owner and the people who made it. I know the right coaches, the track owners, and am PCA board member on the DE committee.
Amar made the right choice and after several sessions in the car I see something none of you get to see...I see him light up with delight in his choice and affirm his own choice with every drive.
So it's not an RS or a Cup car or an F1 car......He is sooo happy driving it and I think in the end that is all anyone every wanted out of any purchase - not to be told he should have bought something "better"
I admire Amar for his courage to listen to all the posts in this thread and ask for some forgiveness for a man following his dreams the way HE sees fit.....and on his terms....
All the best to those who encourage and what ever to those who cant.
All the best
06-05-2012, 03:17 AM
#75
Race Director
Amar, it sounds as though, since some of the posts here, you have had your first extended track experience with your car. Bravo! In post #32 you sounded somewhat conflicted as you were already talking about an RS that Sunset Porsche had for sale and saying that you needed to focus. It was that post that made me wonder if you really had made the correct decision to buy the '76. But if you are happy, then you obviously made the choice that was right for you. Congrats and safe travels on your trip to India.