Wide variety of journalists' opinions on the 991...quotes
02-27-2012, 02:36 AM
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Wide variety of journalists' opinions on the 991...quotes
Interesting post on Pistonheads about quotes from Journalists from RDMcG.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...e+991...quotes
Here are some quotes:
CONCLUSIONS:
Daily Telegraph:
"But is it a better 911? Here the 911 zoo begins a debate on just how scary a 911 should be. I think the 997 predecessor was marginally more of a Porsche."
Automobile Magazine:
"If the 991 is the only 911 you've ever driven, you'll probably think it's the best Porsche ever -- and in many ways we agree. If, on the other hand, you reveled in the old 911's endless feedback; if you relished the thrill of taming a car that didn't really want to be tamed; if you loved the 911 precisely because it wasn't perfect; and, certainly, if you thought that the Porsche 911 was an icon that couldn't be improved and shouldn't be changed, then the 2012 Porsche 911 might not feel like that much of an icon to you."
Car and Driver:
"Meanwhile, the new Carrera is more comfortable and transits quickly, more securely, and with less of the white-knuckle body heaving and tail twitching that has long defined the 911’s unique character. Porschephiles may have been wondering at what point their beloved 911 ceases to be a 911 and becomes just a good sports car with an engine in the trunk. That day may have arrived."
CAR:
" Its more refined.more comfortable.and more economical than ever before,but what matters is that it still has that unique 911 feel and character. The outgoing Carrera GTS is more interactive and involving but this new Porsche 911 isn't far behind - while offering a much broader range of talents to a larger audience."
MSN UK:
"It's impossible not to be impressed by what Porsche has achieved with its latest icon. Engineering and technology have been combined to push the boundaries of rear-engined design several steps forward.But it's not a five star car. By building a Porsche for a broader audience of buyers, a few too many of the little things that form an indelible part of the 911 appeal to enthusiasts have been pushed away."
Classic Car (John Simister)
"Objectively the new 911 is outstanding, but part of a 911's appeal has always been its streak of demanding imperfection. That's why I'd sooner snap up an almost-new 997 GTS while I still can. I never thought I'd consider a simple handbrake lever a bringer of joy, but I do now."
Wall Street Journal (Dan Neil)
' If anything, Porsche has managed to dial up the immediacy of the 911, with quicker reflexes—the electrical steering is first-rate—a more emotional exhaust note and, at full throttle, the capacity for real, edgy violence. You need only drop the Porsche into second gear and nail the throttle."
"The naturally aspirated, direct-injection 3.8-liter flat six mutters quietly, awaiting its chance. The suspension compliance is velvety, the throttle response relaxed. Porsche's product planners would like the new 911 to appeal to more women. Just call me Nancy.
This car is a work in progress? More like an unfinished masterpiece."
EVO ( quoted from a post here)
'Theres a layer of gauze between you and the car'
'Rather aloof and cold'
'Lacking cohesion and sweet uniformity of weights'
'An inconsistency of connection'
'A general lack of detail through the wheel'
'Sounds like..looks like...but doesnt drive like a 911'
Motor Sport:
"What astounds me is that this is just the start. In time will come the Turbos, GT3s and, lordy me, even GT2 variants – each faster and more ferocious. But if you believe in starting as you mean to go on, it’s hard to see how Porsche could have done a much better job of replacing its icon than this."
Autocar:
"I can’t honestly think of a new driver’s car due out in 2012 that’s likely to be better. A Lotus Evora may be a purer, more sweetly balanced thrill, but it lacks complexity next to the 911. An Aston Martin Vantage is a much duller drive; an Audi R8 closer, but no match.
BUT - QUESTIONS
Daily Telegraph
"The seven-speed manual is basically the PDK ’box with slightly different third and seventh ratios. It isn’t a success, presenting a bewildering array of five vertical selection planes"
"Only occasionally do you find a slight hollowness in the steering feel, but it’s a very clever piece of engineering."
Automobile Magazine:
"In fact, the 2012 Porsche 911 has no temper at all. The rear end never feels like it's going to come unstuck. And the steering? Well, it never feels like much at all. As a result, the new 911 doesn't really feel like a 911"
CAR:
"you'll learn to live with it, but there are many other things you can learn to live with but don't necessarily want to have in your life. If you've ever been behind the wheel of a GT3 then its instantly obvious that that delectable steering feel is missing"
MSN UK
"The longer wheelbase provides most of the improvement and electro-mechanical power steering the rest.
It changes the character. The steering is as sharp and precise as ever, but the feedback from bumps and small surface imperfections has largely disappeared. It's all progress says Porsche, but there are also reasons to mourn the loss of the old 911 character."
Classic Car (John SImister)
"And the steering? Porsche claims it to be the most advanced and most natural-feeling electric system yet invented, with new levels of cleverness in the way it interprets the driver's torque inputs to create the correct effect from the cause. But it feels a bit sloppy around the centre, as if there's a loose rubber joint in the system, and there's little in the way of subtle picture-painting feedback, just a level of resistance the electronics judge suitable"
Motor Sport
"And that steering, while not so garrulously communicative as 911 die-hards might like, makes every other electric steering system I’ve tried look nothing less than incompetent."
Autocar
"Not to like? There’s the slightly mushy centre feel of that electric power steering. Being very picky indeed, you could also say that the shift quality of the manual gearbox leaves a smidge to be desired, and may wonder why Porsche still hasn’t made its direct injection engines respond to millimetric throttle adjustments with the same creamy smoothness of its older lumps. But we don’t think you’d wonder for very long"
Clarkson ( quoted from a post here)
JC: "... great engine...awful steering"
Hammond: "it's not awful, it just doesn't feel very 911 anymore"
JC: "... they've ruined it."
Hammond: "You're right, they've killed the thing that made it special"
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...e+991...quotes
Here are some quotes:
CONCLUSIONS:
Daily Telegraph:
"But is it a better 911? Here the 911 zoo begins a debate on just how scary a 911 should be. I think the 997 predecessor was marginally more of a Porsche."
Automobile Magazine:
"If the 991 is the only 911 you've ever driven, you'll probably think it's the best Porsche ever -- and in many ways we agree. If, on the other hand, you reveled in the old 911's endless feedback; if you relished the thrill of taming a car that didn't really want to be tamed; if you loved the 911 precisely because it wasn't perfect; and, certainly, if you thought that the Porsche 911 was an icon that couldn't be improved and shouldn't be changed, then the 2012 Porsche 911 might not feel like that much of an icon to you."
Car and Driver:
"Meanwhile, the new Carrera is more comfortable and transits quickly, more securely, and with less of the white-knuckle body heaving and tail twitching that has long defined the 911’s unique character. Porschephiles may have been wondering at what point their beloved 911 ceases to be a 911 and becomes just a good sports car with an engine in the trunk. That day may have arrived."
CAR:
" Its more refined.more comfortable.and more economical than ever before,but what matters is that it still has that unique 911 feel and character. The outgoing Carrera GTS is more interactive and involving but this new Porsche 911 isn't far behind - while offering a much broader range of talents to a larger audience."
MSN UK:
"It's impossible not to be impressed by what Porsche has achieved with its latest icon. Engineering and technology have been combined to push the boundaries of rear-engined design several steps forward.But it's not a five star car. By building a Porsche for a broader audience of buyers, a few too many of the little things that form an indelible part of the 911 appeal to enthusiasts have been pushed away."
Classic Car (John Simister)
"Objectively the new 911 is outstanding, but part of a 911's appeal has always been its streak of demanding imperfection. That's why I'd sooner snap up an almost-new 997 GTS while I still can. I never thought I'd consider a simple handbrake lever a bringer of joy, but I do now."
Wall Street Journal (Dan Neil)
' If anything, Porsche has managed to dial up the immediacy of the 911, with quicker reflexes—the electrical steering is first-rate—a more emotional exhaust note and, at full throttle, the capacity for real, edgy violence. You need only drop the Porsche into second gear and nail the throttle."
"The naturally aspirated, direct-injection 3.8-liter flat six mutters quietly, awaiting its chance. The suspension compliance is velvety, the throttle response relaxed. Porsche's product planners would like the new 911 to appeal to more women. Just call me Nancy.
This car is a work in progress? More like an unfinished masterpiece."
EVO ( quoted from a post here)
'Theres a layer of gauze between you and the car'
'Rather aloof and cold'
'Lacking cohesion and sweet uniformity of weights'
'An inconsistency of connection'
'A general lack of detail through the wheel'
'Sounds like..looks like...but doesnt drive like a 911'
Motor Sport:
"What astounds me is that this is just the start. In time will come the Turbos, GT3s and, lordy me, even GT2 variants – each faster and more ferocious. But if you believe in starting as you mean to go on, it’s hard to see how Porsche could have done a much better job of replacing its icon than this."
Autocar:
"I can’t honestly think of a new driver’s car due out in 2012 that’s likely to be better. A Lotus Evora may be a purer, more sweetly balanced thrill, but it lacks complexity next to the 911. An Aston Martin Vantage is a much duller drive; an Audi R8 closer, but no match.
BUT - QUESTIONS
Daily Telegraph
"The seven-speed manual is basically the PDK ’box with slightly different third and seventh ratios. It isn’t a success, presenting a bewildering array of five vertical selection planes"
"Only occasionally do you find a slight hollowness in the steering feel, but it’s a very clever piece of engineering."
Automobile Magazine:
"In fact, the 2012 Porsche 911 has no temper at all. The rear end never feels like it's going to come unstuck. And the steering? Well, it never feels like much at all. As a result, the new 911 doesn't really feel like a 911"
CAR:
"you'll learn to live with it, but there are many other things you can learn to live with but don't necessarily want to have in your life. If you've ever been behind the wheel of a GT3 then its instantly obvious that that delectable steering feel is missing"
MSN UK
"The longer wheelbase provides most of the improvement and electro-mechanical power steering the rest.
It changes the character. The steering is as sharp and precise as ever, but the feedback from bumps and small surface imperfections has largely disappeared. It's all progress says Porsche, but there are also reasons to mourn the loss of the old 911 character."
Classic Car (John SImister)
"And the steering? Porsche claims it to be the most advanced and most natural-feeling electric system yet invented, with new levels of cleverness in the way it interprets the driver's torque inputs to create the correct effect from the cause. But it feels a bit sloppy around the centre, as if there's a loose rubber joint in the system, and there's little in the way of subtle picture-painting feedback, just a level of resistance the electronics judge suitable"
Motor Sport
"And that steering, while not so garrulously communicative as 911 die-hards might like, makes every other electric steering system I’ve tried look nothing less than incompetent."
Autocar
"Not to like? There’s the slightly mushy centre feel of that electric power steering. Being very picky indeed, you could also say that the shift quality of the manual gearbox leaves a smidge to be desired, and may wonder why Porsche still hasn’t made its direct injection engines respond to millimetric throttle adjustments with the same creamy smoothness of its older lumps. But we don’t think you’d wonder for very long"
Clarkson ( quoted from a post here)
JC: "... great engine...awful steering"
Hammond: "it's not awful, it just doesn't feel very 911 anymore"
JC: "... they've ruined it."
Hammond: "You're right, they've killed the thing that made it special"
02-27-2012, 07:44 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Its amazing. The very things that everyone said needed to be corrected on the 911 are the things that journalists love when they're corrected. To each, his own, I suppose.
02-27-2012, 10:38 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Great summary, thanks.
The multiple comments on the steering is seriously disturbing. I do hope the GTx variants will ditch with this stupid electronic $hit and use a traditional rack & pinion. I believe the logic behind the electronic rack is fuel-efficiency driven, which I couldn't care less in a GTx car. So what if I get 1.5mpg at the track??? GIVE US A TRUE DRIVER'S CAR. Leave the eco-mentalists and tree huggers to driving Polo Green-Blue-DieselTecs. Heck, people who drive fixated to their fuel gauges shouldn't be in a performance car in the first place. They already had the perfect thing invented 200 years ago, and they're called bikes. With pedals.
To Porsche: Be a man. Do the right thing.
The multiple comments on the steering is seriously disturbing. I do hope the GTx variants will ditch with this stupid electronic $hit and use a traditional rack & pinion. I believe the logic behind the electronic rack is fuel-efficiency driven, which I couldn't care less in a GTx car. So what if I get 1.5mpg at the track??? GIVE US A TRUE DRIVER'S CAR. Leave the eco-mentalists and tree huggers to driving Polo Green-Blue-DieselTecs. Heck, people who drive fixated to their fuel gauges shouldn't be in a performance car in the first place. They already had the perfect thing invented 200 years ago, and they're called bikes. With pedals.
To Porsche: Be a man. Do the right thing.
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02-28-2012, 12:01 AM
#8
Race Director
I got to drive a 991S without the sales guy in the car. I also got to drive it on local roads around my neighborhood. As a 997S owner and current GTS owner I can say that my feelings are the 991 is more comfortable for very tall guys like me. I also like that the steering wheel is closer to me. The 991 is very plush and more luxurious, less raw than the 997. The steering is definitely a big part of the plush feel and definitely NOT a Porsche steering feel of past Porshe models. I think that hard core spots car guys like us on these forums are no longer Porsches target customer....the general public will love the 991.
02-28-2012, 05:18 AM
#11
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hard to believe that would happen - with every iteration of 911gt3 comes a degree of softness.
from the beginning;
hard suspension - becomes adjustable suspension, switchable electronically
loud exhaust - becomes exhaust valving, switchable electronically
no driver aids - becomes electronic driver aids, switchable electronically
low, scraping front-end - becomes front end lifter switchable electronically...
you get the point.
now the steering is electronic, the handbrake is electronic.....what is next target for some softness?
new, emerging markets need a soft point of entry...
auto door closers ala s-class benz?
from the beginning;
hard suspension - becomes adjustable suspension, switchable electronically
loud exhaust - becomes exhaust valving, switchable electronically
no driver aids - becomes electronic driver aids, switchable electronically
low, scraping front-end - becomes front end lifter switchable electronically...
you get the point.
now the steering is electronic, the handbrake is electronic.....what is next target for some softness?
new, emerging markets need a soft point of entry...
auto door closers ala s-class benz?
02-28-2012, 07:38 AM
#13
I disagree. I have owned most if the 911 variants including 2 997 turbos and a 11 GT3RS. It is very fun to drive and all Porsche. It's feels much more cohesive and a little more refined. Drop into sport plus and go for it and it's still a beast. I will trade mine for a new Turbo when available. I think it's the best Porsche to date. The 7:30 ring time says it all.
02-28-2012, 11:55 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
I am certainly open to the 991 and the Panamera. The only problem is that they are losing "Porsche-soul". Will I buy one? Of course - but as a non-descript DD. Compared to a BMW or a MB, the Porsche will be another compliant GTcar...
I'm very interested in the 991 GT3. Let's see if Porsche continues with perfection....
-B
02-28-2012, 12:58 PM
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In my book, the 991 >>>>>> 997.
I recently got to drive around the 997.2S with PSE. One that's a properly aligned (private car). Relatively speaking, the car felt detached, quiet, and dare I say a bit long in the tooth?
The 991 takes it up notches above along multiple fronts to where the whole steering jiggly thing became a non-factor. More power, reduced lap times, and incredible sounds are a coming.
In water-cooled 911 land, buy the newest you can afford still rings true. GT series is TBD, but I'm fairly certain it's going to pound the existing GT models into submission. The question is will it do it with the same level of reliability as I've come to learn the Mezger GT3 ain't exactly bulletproof either.
I recently got to drive around the 997.2S with PSE. One that's a properly aligned (private car). Relatively speaking, the car felt detached, quiet, and dare I say a bit long in the tooth?
The 991 takes it up notches above along multiple fronts to where the whole steering jiggly thing became a non-factor. More power, reduced lap times, and incredible sounds are a coming.
In water-cooled 911 land, buy the newest you can afford still rings true. GT series is TBD, but I'm fairly certain it's going to pound the existing GT models into submission. The question is will it do it with the same level of reliability as I've come to learn the Mezger GT3 ain't exactly bulletproof either.