Mancation; Road America-Calabogie-Tremblant-Mosport....OH CANADA
07-12-2012, 10:34 PM
#826
Rennlist Member
IMO if you spend a bunch of time with huge changes in the shocks settings, you are off target to begin with.
I'd set all of those shocks and sway settings to neutral/soft and get a coach and mechanic at the track (at the same time) to help you get the base platform set up (ride height). Then use the other adjustments for fine tuning. You can easily get lost with huge changes in shock settings.
I'd set all of those shocks and sway settings to neutral/soft and get a coach and mechanic at the track (at the same time) to help you get the base platform set up (ride height). Then use the other adjustments for fine tuning. You can easily get lost with huge changes in shock settings.
+2
07-12-2012, 11:44 PM
#827
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: new york
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck on the rest of the Mancation journey. It was nice to meet a few of you at RA. Attached below is one of the last runs on Saturday. GT3RS Train;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTcb...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTcb...e_gdata_player
07-13-2012, 12:08 AM
#828
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: new york
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Video of last day, session 3.....Mike and I displaying fun but sloppy driving. I like the camera view....showa the beauty of the track and elevation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qP2GfzhxOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qP2GfzhxOg
07-13-2012, 12:16 AM
#829
Rennlist Member
Good luck on the rest of the Mancation journey. It was nice to meet a few of you at RA. Attached below is one of the last runs on Saturday. GT3RS Train;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTcb...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTcb...e_gdata_player
Thought you were running the RA1 tires and not off road tires, Dang that turn 5 looked a little wide. Did that work for you all day?? My car hates those bumps.
On a serious note, let me just say, that rabbit had legs, yeeee haaa.
Never could catch ya. Looks like its time for cheater parts, bbs wheels, 996 shifter cable, time for a track alignment
Be safe
On a serious note, let me just say, that rabbit had legs, yeeee haaa.
Never could catch ya. Looks like its time for cheater parts, bbs wheels, 996 shifter cable, time for a track alignment
Be safe
And I don't driver very well in packs. Not much of a race car driver.
Mike, you are my rabbit tomorrow, imam sure I will find randy parked on my bumper to unsettle me again
Awesome hospitality by the Canadians today!
A nice terrace and parking space set up for us.
We tried to eat them out of great BBQ food, wine and beer, but we left loaded and unsuccessful!
Thanks to everyone and specially Mark and Francois!!
I alo understand you guys buying RV's. 35 mi drive to hotel is crazy :bang head:
07-13-2012, 12:26 AM
#830
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: new york
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i can relax and drive easy tomorrow as im not in your run group. haha
+1000 on the canadian hospitality. i came a day early and francois and marc fed me and had beer and wine after 11 hours of driving which was perfect timing. these guys do it right with their RV setups.
Mosport is the funnest, scariest, rollercoaster in a car ive ever been on. its definitely a bucket list track for anyone who likes to track their car
+1000 on the canadian hospitality. i came a day early and francois and marc fed me and had beer and wine after 11 hours of driving which was perfect timing. these guys do it right with their RV setups.
Mosport is the funnest, scariest, rollercoaster in a car ive ever been on. its definitely a bucket list track for anyone who likes to track their car
07-13-2012, 12:36 AM
#832
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Rad, I am not that far off from where you are suggesting I start. FYI 23 clicks on the rear, fronts are 40/47. The only real difference is front ARB setting, need to go one or two holes stiffer. FYI if rake is at 20mm, ride height cannot be only 15mm lower- there will be a difference from F/R. Do you mean FRONT 15mm lower, AND 20mm rake? The other thing is, Ohlins measures height from the fenders and gives a suggested height and rake. Kind of weird they don't do it like the ROW. There must be a method to their madness, or perhaps it's just because they're Swedish and like to do things differently. I don't want to run 3 degrees of camber on this car- it's a street car with weekend track duty, not the other way around.
I agree, the high speed, so far, has been set and forget, the low speed is where the big gains are.
FYI if the suggested spring rates aren't right, why would the suggested baseline for the shocks be any different?
I agree, the high speed, so far, has been set and forget, the low speed is where the big gains are.
FYI if the suggested spring rates aren't right, why would the suggested baseline for the shocks be any different?
Front ride height at 93mm and rear at 113mm (20mm rake). Stock is 108mm/133mm (25mm rake) with the +/- 5mm tolerance.
Just measure what you have right now from chassis height and fender lip to establish the gap, then from there on measure from the fender lip. Remember to compensate for the different tire sizes you're now using compared to the stock 235/35R19-305/30R19 MPSC.
Stiffening the front bar 2 holes will help a lot on corner exit, but given that you're maxed out on compression and near maxed out on rebound on the front shocks, it seems that the car is finding the balance by stiffening shocks and sway bars in one axle, and that is the simple answer to chasing a mismatch on springs.
Get the rear sway bar to full soft, front sway bar in the middle or 1 from full stiff. Remove compression and rebound from the front shocks as they need to do some work, I would say start at 30C/40R in the front. At the rear 20C/30R should be a good start.
For street use and the superb street tires (MPSS), -2.5 front and -2.0 rear camber should be just fine.
On my friend's 997.1 GT3 he had GMG sway bars (they are a lot stiffer than stock), car was dialed on the stock suspension, but you know how bad the 2006-2009 PASM setups were. He went to Ohlins, and the car became loose, eventually he went back to the stock rear sway bar at full soft, and kept the stiffer GMG front bar in the near stiff setting, car on 18x10 and 18x12 with 285/335 Hoosiers. That's how he found balance and it got better, but still a little loose at the limits, his solution (which he has not done yet last time we talked) is to reduce rear spring rates from the Ohlins.
Your car will surely work quite well and better than stock once dialed even with the 700#/1300# springs, but 1300# is too much for the back. The Aero Beetle boys with all the massive Aero are using less than 1/2 of that. 1300# springs require smooth tracks, big downforce and slicks to work well.
07-13-2012, 12:41 AM
#833
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Canadian Hospitality !!! I must go there, I have a few invitations all of them phenomenal, but work schedule is not easy.
When PCA gets to Mosport with NNJR-PCA, stop by the DE chair (Drew) and say hello, nicest guy in the world and my best friend.
When PCA gets to Mosport with NNJR-PCA, stop by the DE chair (Drew) and say hello, nicest guy in the world and my best friend.
07-13-2012, 01:09 AM
#834
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nick,
Front ride height at 93mm and rear at 113mm (20mm rake). Stock is 108mm/133mm (25mm rake) with the +/- 5mm tolerance.
Just measure what you have right now from chassis height and fender lip to establish the gap, then from there on measure from the fender lip. Remember to compensate for the different tire sizes you're now using compared to the stock 235/35R19-305/30R19 MPSC.
Stiffening the front bar 2 holes will help a lot on corner exit, but given that you're maxed out on compression and near maxed out on rebound on the front shocks, it seems that the car is finding the balance by stiffening shocks and sway bars in one axle, and that is the simple answer to chasing a mismatch on springs.
Get the rear sway bar to full soft, front sway bar in the middle or 1 from full stiff. Remove compression and rebound from the front shocks as they need to do some work, I would say start at 30C/40R in the front. At the rear 20C/30R should be a good start.
For street use and the superb street tires (MPSS), -2.5 front and -2.0 rear camber should be just fine.
On my friend's 997.1 GT3 he had GMG sway bars (they are a lot stiffer than stock), car was dialed on the stock suspension, but you know how bad the 2006-2009 PASM setups were. He went to Ohlins, and the car became loose, eventually he went back to the stock rear sway bar at full soft, and kept the stiffer GMG front bar in the near stiff setting, car on 18x10 and 18x12 with 285/335 Hoosiers. That's how he found balance and it got better, but still a little loose at the limits, his solution (which he has not done yet last time we talked) is to reduce rear spring rates from the Ohlins.
Your car will surely work quite well and better than stock once dialed even with the 700#/1300# springs, but 1300# is too much for the back. The Aero Beetle boys with all the massive Aero are using less than 1/2 of that. 1300# springs require smooth tracks, big downforce and slicks to work well.
Front ride height at 93mm and rear at 113mm (20mm rake). Stock is 108mm/133mm (25mm rake) with the +/- 5mm tolerance.
Just measure what you have right now from chassis height and fender lip to establish the gap, then from there on measure from the fender lip. Remember to compensate for the different tire sizes you're now using compared to the stock 235/35R19-305/30R19 MPSC.
Stiffening the front bar 2 holes will help a lot on corner exit, but given that you're maxed out on compression and near maxed out on rebound on the front shocks, it seems that the car is finding the balance by stiffening shocks and sway bars in one axle, and that is the simple answer to chasing a mismatch on springs.
Get the rear sway bar to full soft, front sway bar in the middle or 1 from full stiff. Remove compression and rebound from the front shocks as they need to do some work, I would say start at 30C/40R in the front. At the rear 20C/30R should be a good start.
For street use and the superb street tires (MPSS), -2.5 front and -2.0 rear camber should be just fine.
On my friend's 997.1 GT3 he had GMG sway bars (they are a lot stiffer than stock), car was dialed on the stock suspension, but you know how bad the 2006-2009 PASM setups were. He went to Ohlins, and the car became loose, eventually he went back to the stock rear sway bar at full soft, and kept the stiffer GMG front bar in the near stiff setting, car on 18x10 and 18x12 with 285/335 Hoosiers. That's how he found balance and it got better, but still a little loose at the limits, his solution (which he has not done yet last time we talked) is to reduce rear spring rates from the Ohlins.
Your car will surely work quite well and better than stock once dialed even with the 700#/1300# springs, but 1300# is too much for the back. The Aero Beetle boys with all the massive Aero are using less than 1/2 of that. 1300# springs require smooth tracks, big downforce and slicks to work well.
FYI stock ride height for 997 GT2 is F110mmR147mm, both +5mm. I keep telling people that the GT2 is the strange duck of the family. So those numbers and yours don't jive, but I bet that your numbers are for a pre-2010 GT3RS and not GT2, not surprising since the GT3RS is far more common.
I think I want to explore the philosophy why Ohlins went this route before arbitrarily swapping out rear springs. I don't mind going to the track and testing it out thoroughly. I don't know the first thing about Porsches and now is as good a time as any to learn hands on. I have a few more calls to make- I have already put in a few calls to others who have, or sell, this kit. I have a sneaking suspicion concerning the reasons...
07-13-2012, 09:31 AM
#835
Race Car
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: With A Manual Transmission
Posts: 4,728
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Seeing as the heavy spring rates are usually for REALLY heavy cars, or cars that produce tons of grip, how do those street tires match up with that? The thought of it sounds scary. I imagine you can barely even compress those things with street tires on, how do they feel on the street?
When I had 600 1100 springs, my car would push like crazy because it was so easy to overpower the grip of the front tire as no weight shifted to the back of the car. Even now at 600-899, I feel like I could lessen the gap a little bit. I'm a bit dumbfounded that Ohlins would even suggest those rates. Sounds like some KW rates and everyone I know who has tried those have either hated them and switched springs or hated them and went to Motons.
When I had 600 1100 springs, my car would push like crazy because it was so easy to overpower the grip of the front tire as no weight shifted to the back of the car. Even now at 600-899, I feel like I could lessen the gap a little bit. I'm a bit dumbfounded that Ohlins would even suggest those rates. Sounds like some KW rates and everyone I know who has tried those have either hated them and switched springs or hated them and went to Motons.
07-13-2012, 10:09 AM
#836
Kris, you are lapping in 2:40s, any line works for 2:40 laps up there. So, use PS3 simulator or the more advanced iRacing thingy, and get coach to sit next to you in car with a good data acquisition.
Coaching person-to-person is 1,000 times better than coaching through keyboard and iPad screen.
Coaching person-to-person is 1,000 times better than coaching through keyboard and iPad screen.
07-13-2012, 08:35 PM
#838
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: new york
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
coming soon...
right now standings are
me 1:32.3 on corded hoosiers
peter 1:33.1 on ra1's
randy 1:33.6 on ra1's
tomorrow morning should be fun with a fast track. i had to get new front pads and new toyo's on the rollercoaster tomorrow
right now standings are
me 1:32.3 on corded hoosiers
peter 1:33.1 on ra1's
randy 1:33.6 on ra1's
tomorrow morning should be fun with a fast track. i had to get new front pads and new toyo's on the rollercoaster tomorrow
07-13-2012, 10:10 PM
#839
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
