997.1 wing adjustment
02-09-2012, 05:36 PM
#17
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Max wing on my car cost me 10 MPH on the straight on my home track and increased lap times. I suspect it varies with the track. I did find increased stability in some corners but the trade off wasn't worth it in my case.
Best,
Best,
02-09-2012, 06:21 PM
#18
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Leave the wing flat (stock position). I have yet to see the 996 and 997.1 GT3 lapping faster with the wing at maximum drag/downforce. Easier to drive, yes, slower yes, slowing down any car would make it easier to drive.
The 997.1 GT3 produces just 66 lbs of downforce at 186mph. Downforce grows at an exponential factor, generally x^2, +/- correction factors for air density, temperature, humidity, etc.
At 200 kp/h (125 mph) the 997.1 GT3 produced 4.4 lbs of lift on the front axle, and 0 downforce on the rear axle, as tested by German Super magazine SportAuto.
At a track like Sebring, where most turns are slow, adding wing would help at Bishop bend, but it would hurt on the high speed sections where a car like the 997.1 GT3 can go flat-out with the stock wing position.
Even the Aero loaded 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 produced a total of 132 lbs of downforce at the SportAuto wind tunnel test (125mph), but at typical Sebring turns of 1/2 the speed, the downforce would be in the 35 lbs range, helpful, but not a day/night difference.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
The 997.1 GT3 produces just 66 lbs of downforce at 186mph. Downforce grows at an exponential factor, generally x^2, +/- correction factors for air density, temperature, humidity, etc.
At 200 kp/h (125 mph) the 997.1 GT3 produced 4.4 lbs of lift on the front axle, and 0 downforce on the rear axle, as tested by German Super magazine SportAuto.
At a track like Sebring, where most turns are slow, adding wing would help at Bishop bend, but it would hurt on the high speed sections where a car like the 997.1 GT3 can go flat-out with the stock wing position.
Even the Aero loaded 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 produced a total of 132 lbs of downforce at the SportAuto wind tunnel test (125mph), but at typical Sebring turns of 1/2 the speed, the downforce would be in the 35 lbs range, helpful, but not a day/night difference.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
02-10-2012, 12:30 PM
#20
Race Director
Leave the wing flat (stock position). I have yet to see the 996 and 997.1 GT3 lapping faster with the wing at maximum drag/downforce. Easier to drive, yes, slower yes, slowing down any car would make it easier to drive.
The 997.1 GT3 produces just 66 lbs of downforce at 186mph. Downforce grows at an exponential factor, generally x^2, +/- correction factors for air density, temperature, humidity, etc.
At 200 kp/h (125 mph) the 997.1 GT3 produced 4.4 lbs of lift on the front axle, and 0 downforce on the rear axle, as tested by German Super magazine SportAuto.
At a track like Sebring, where most turns are slow, adding wing would help at Bishop bend, but it would hurt on the high speed sections where a car like the 997.1 GT3 can go flat-out with the stock wing position.
Even the Aero loaded 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 produced a total of 132 lbs of downforce at the SportAuto wind tunnel test (125mph), but at typical Sebring turns of 1/2 the speed, the downforce would be in the 35 lbs range, helpful, but not a day/night difference.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
The 997.1 GT3 produces just 66 lbs of downforce at 186mph. Downforce grows at an exponential factor, generally x^2, +/- correction factors for air density, temperature, humidity, etc.
At 200 kp/h (125 mph) the 997.1 GT3 produced 4.4 lbs of lift on the front axle, and 0 downforce on the rear axle, as tested by German Super magazine SportAuto.
At a track like Sebring, where most turns are slow, adding wing would help at Bishop bend, but it would hurt on the high speed sections where a car like the 997.1 GT3 can go flat-out with the stock wing position.
Even the Aero loaded 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 produced a total of 132 lbs of downforce at the SportAuto wind tunnel test (125mph), but at typical Sebring turns of 1/2 the speed, the downforce would be in the 35 lbs range, helpful, but not a day/night difference.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
Where in the heck do you get all this wing downforce information? I never can find this type of stuff from Porsche.
Also that guy with the Yellow GT3.1 got a alignment and that was his major help, is not using R888's anymore, not using RA1's anymore thus car stopped spinning. Oh and he might have improved too following rabbits around the track....he and his little greek friend need to hire Chris Hall, VR or Seth Thomas for a day.
As for the raised up wing thingy....nah..I tired it, didn't notice much difference except slower speeds on the straights....mines at stock plus I can use my rear view mirror to keep tabs on you GT3 and Fiat guys for my gracefully executed point by's.
02-10-2012, 12:48 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
At a track like Sebring, where most turns are slow, adding wing would help at Bishop bend, but it would hurt on the high speed sections where a car like the 997.1 GT3 can go flat-out with the stock wing position.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
There is a guy with a Yellow 997.1 GT3 and the wing at max-drag that could not break under 2:28 at Sebring, a wise man told him to put it flat, suddenly the Yellow car driver dropped 4 secs.
You are probably correct.....but I disagree with your advise to an open forum of drivers with varying skill levels
Taking bishops flat takes a tight close to perfect line.....and the ability to deal with the car when the rear end gets loose before 15a. The exit of bishops at full tilt (127ish mph on TM and 132 on speedo) in my car is by far the most dangerous place on the track. I just happen to deal with the rear end wanting to swap with the front, most cant
Most.....almost all the drivers that I have seen on this forum do not have the coaching / car control skills / or proper line to take bishops flat, even at full wing.
More wing on a car does slow it down on the straights, but will make it more stable in 1, 13-15, 17. Most drivers need stability more than a balled up car.
And yes....the car you are referring to spun and tapped the wall at Bishops exit after he went to no wing. He was very lucky that day
Enjoy the drag race down the straights.....I will just block at corner entrance
When I had Chris Hall in my car for coaching half way through the day I added a wicker to the rear wing of my RS (more downforce). Lap times whent down and Chris said the car felt much much more under control
I'll take more wing
YMMV
02-10-2012, 12:52 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Rad, are you a math teacher? LOL
Where in the heck do you get all this wing downforce information? I never can find this type of stuff from Porsche.
Also that guy with the Yellow GT3.1 got a alignment and that was his major help, is not using R888's anymore, not using RA1's anymore thus car stopped spinning. Oh and he might have improved too following rabbits around the track....he and his little greek friend need to hire Chris Hall, VR or Seth Thomas for a day.
As for the raised up wing thingy....nah..I tired it, didn't notice much difference except slower speeds on the straights....mines at stock plus I can use my rear view mirror to keep tabs on you GT3 and Fiat guys for my gracefully executed point by's.
Where in the heck do you get all this wing downforce information? I never can find this type of stuff from Porsche.
Also that guy with the Yellow GT3.1 got a alignment and that was his major help, is not using R888's anymore, not using RA1's anymore thus car stopped spinning. Oh and he might have improved too following rabbits around the track....he and his little greek friend need to hire Chris Hall, VR or Seth Thomas for a day.
As for the raised up wing thingy....nah..I tired it, didn't notice much difference except slower speeds on the straights....mines at stock plus I can use my rear view mirror to keep tabs on you GT3 and Fiat guys for my gracefully executed point by's.
It does very little without angle
02-10-2012, 01:37 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
The way to really squash the speculation is to do back to back testing. I found on a .2, wing tilted up .75 inches was a good balance of speed and downforce. Lost about 5 mph
On back straight, but bishops and T1 was still stable.
Honestly, .1 doesn't have much downforce. I would assume leaving everything in stock position on a .2 would be ok since the downforce is much improved over .1's.
On back straight, but bishops and T1 was still stable.
Honestly, .1 doesn't have much downforce. I would assume leaving everything in stock position on a .2 would be ok since the downforce is much improved over .1's.
02-10-2012, 02:00 PM
#24
Race Director
02-10-2012, 02:05 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
The way to really squash the speculation is to do back to back testing. I found on a .2, wing tilted up .75 inches was a good balance of speed and downforce. Lost about 5 mph
On back straight, but bishops and T1 was still stable.
Honestly, .1 doesn't have much downforce. I would assume leaving everything in stock position on a .2 would be ok since the downforce is much improved over .1's.
On back straight, but bishops and T1 was still stable.
Honestly, .1 doesn't have much downforce. I would assume leaving everything in stock position on a .2 would be ok since the downforce is much improved over .1's.
Need to look at the data to really tell.
02-11-2012, 01:06 AM
#26
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hire Chris Hall, VR or Seth Thomas for a day.
As for the raised up wing thingy....nah..I tired it, didn't notice much difference except slower speeds on the straights....mines at stock plus I can use my rear view mirror to keep tabs on you GT3 and Fiat guys for my gracefully executed point by's.
As for the raised up wing thingy....nah..I tired it, didn't notice much difference except slower speeds on the straights....mines at stock plus I can use my rear view mirror to keep tabs on you GT3 and Fiat guys for my gracefully executed point by's.
02-11-2012, 01:11 AM
#27
Race Director
GTS does not come with aero...however you can check the aero kit box when you order the car and the GT3.1 aero wing. My GTS Aero didn't come with the plastic/rubber deal on the lower rear spolier though...not sure I need it, no idea how much it costs either.
02-11-2012, 01:58 AM
#28
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My understanding was that Porsche does not ship the GTS/Carrera aerokit rear wing with the adjustable flaps like those on the 997.1 GT3. So I was wondering how you're adjusting the flap if your non-GT3 wing does not have this feature available. I've seen a 997 CarreraS/4S with the cup kit and the wing does not adjust. It also didn't have that black strip either.
02-11-2012, 02:16 AM
#29
Race Director
Yes, to clarify, I'm well aware the GTS doesn't come with the aerokit that yours has. It's a must for me and your GTS is an amazing example.
My understanding was that Porsche does not ship the GTS/Carrera aerokit rear wing with the adjustable flaps like those on the 997.1 GT3. So I was wondering how you're adjusting the flap if your non-GT3 wing does not have this feature available. I've seen a 997 CarreraS/4S with the cup kit and the wing does not adjust. It also didn't have that black strip either.
My understanding was that Porsche does not ship the GTS/Carrera aerokit rear wing with the adjustable flaps like those on the 997.1 GT3. So I was wondering how you're adjusting the flap if your non-GT3 wing does not have this feature available. I've seen a 997 CarreraS/4S with the cup kit and the wing does not adjust. It also didn't have that black strip either.
02-11-2012, 10:05 AM
#30
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