Interesting PCCB pad discovery
02-05-2012, 01:56 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Think it's mostly the cost. If not tracked, I understand the rotors can last forever. 150,000 plus miles. I further understand if PCCB's are tracked and regular fluid flush, proper cool down, and replace pads at 50% then they will last a decent amount of time. Personally I would not have ordered my GT3 with them. However when I found this car at the dealer it was perfect in every other regard. Know I have to change the rotors at some point. My consideration is few bucks for pads now and prolong this. Or, go steel now and sell the rotors.
02-05-2012, 02:25 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Think it's mostly the cost. If not tracked, I understand the rotors can last forever. 150,000 plus miles. I further understand if PCCB's are tracked and regular fluid flush, proper cool down, and replace pads at 50% then they will last a decent amount of time. Personally I would not have ordered my GT3 with them. However when I found this car at the dealer it was perfect in every other regard. Know I have to change the rotors at some point. My consideration is few bucks for pads now and prolong this. Or, go steel now and sell the rotors.
02-05-2012, 04:57 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a note, the brass retaining pins on those pads (made by Pagid) are disigned not to harm the rotor.....
Let me know if we can help with a steel brake conversion package for you!
Cheers
Let me know if we can help with a steel brake conversion package for you!
Cheers
02-05-2012, 06:55 PM
#19
Race Director
02-09-2012, 12:27 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
That is plenty of track days....One consideration if you do not want to change the pads as frequent would be to go with the Green motorsport...it will take you a lap or two before they bite with an amazing grip,and there is controversey about usnig them with ceramic rotors as they may shorten the life of the rotors more than stock pads.
02-09-2012, 01:45 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL. Home of Florida Man.
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I'm in a similar conundrum. I only had a few track days on my PCCBs (09 Carrera S) at ORP in Oregon. the front pads separated from the backing plate and i had a bunch of squeeling. i'll take some measurements.
the assessment was that i basically cooked them. i have additional venting and scoops to keep them cool. rears were OK, which also have GT3 scoops to keep them cool.
personally, I love the PCCBs on the track because of the performance. I get that there are dissenting views.
any additional info on using the Green Motorsport would be appreciated. i'm happy to swap out the pads for track days. I saw the old thread on here and i'm not sure if it's the Gen 1 PCCB or Gen 2 that it's referring to.
Thanks!
the assessment was that i basically cooked them. i have additional venting and scoops to keep them cool. rears were OK, which also have GT3 scoops to keep them cool.
personally, I love the PCCBs on the track because of the performance. I get that there are dissenting views.
any additional info on using the Green Motorsport would be appreciated. i'm happy to swap out the pads for track days. I saw the old thread on here and i'm not sure if it's the Gen 1 PCCB or Gen 2 that it's referring to.
Thanks!
02-09-2012, 02:42 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in a similar conundrum. I only had a few track days on my PCCBs (09 Carrera S) at ORP in Oregon. the front pads separated from the backing plate and i had a bunch of squeeling. i'll take some measurements.
the assessment was that i basically cooked them. i have additional venting and scoops to keep them cool. rears were OK, which also have GT3 scoops to keep them cool.
personally, I love the PCCBs on the track because of the performance. I get that there are dissenting views.
any additional info on using the Green Motorsport would be appreciated. i'm happy to swap out the pads for track days. I saw the old thread on here and i'm not sure if it's the Gen 1 PCCB or Gen 2 that it's referring to.
Thanks!
the assessment was that i basically cooked them. i have additional venting and scoops to keep them cool. rears were OK, which also have GT3 scoops to keep them cool.
personally, I love the PCCBs on the track because of the performance. I get that there are dissenting views.
any additional info on using the Green Motorsport would be appreciated. i'm happy to swap out the pads for track days. I saw the old thread on here and i'm not sure if it's the Gen 1 PCCB or Gen 2 that it's referring to.
Thanks!
02-09-2012, 03:04 PM
#23
Drifting
Felt it was time to check and measure the brake pads as I have the PCCB’s. I wanted to be through so I removed the rear Pads. I found the pad material on the outside pads to be 6.4 MM. Inside pad material measured 5.2 MM on the leading edge and 6.2 on the trailing edge.
My original thought was to rotate the pads. Problem is, the brass rivets are showing through on the inside pads! Yikes, I have always read 50% before this will occur. I say this with an understanding new pad material is 8 MM thick. Assumed I could get to 4 MM before replacing. As my PCCB rotors still look band new I think it best to order up new pads.
Dog gone it, really don’t have that many track days on these brakes. I’m thinking steel. Any advice on how much I could sell used PCCB rotors that appear to be in excellent condition for?
My original thought was to rotate the pads. Problem is, the brass rivets are showing through on the inside pads! Yikes, I have always read 50% before this will occur. I say this with an understanding new pad material is 8 MM thick. Assumed I could get to 4 MM before replacing. As my PCCB rotors still look band new I think it best to order up new pads.
Dog gone it, really don’t have that many track days on these brakes. I’m thinking steel. Any advice on how much I could sell used PCCB rotors that appear to be in excellent condition for?
02-09-2012, 03:32 PM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Stock pads won't last 8 days at Sebring, or 4 days either, regardless of PCCB or steel rotors. If they last that long, car is being babied around the track, in which case they would last 100 days at Sebring if lapping at 50mph.
There is long and plenty of information on PCCB longevity, without getting down to the details (too much to write). SuperCup teams get less than 30 hours from them. I use a 200% ratio based on race cars engine/tranny/pads/rotors wear applied to my cars due to me using DOT-R tires and not being in Race conditions but DE conditions. With my use at my pace, PCCB rotors are good for 60 track hours, something like 40 track days.
Despite of written and published claims that PCCB rotors last 6X more than steel rotors (Christophorus with Porsche Motorsports interview), my experience and others experience is not close to the 6X ratio, more like a 2X ratio.
For the SuperCup, the minimum sets of PCCB rotors per season is 2, in just 12-14 races per season, short sprint races. Practice time adds more PCCB sets.
The Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Fiat/Chevrolet/Aston version of CCB is the same, with only Porsche being different and longer lasting. These Brembo CCB (not the PCCB) wear twice as fast as the PCCB. With track use (f430 Challenge), the front CCB rotors are good for 12-15 hours, rear ones for 18-24 hours.
So, if you track 6 days per year, it makes sense to stay with PCCB, because you're adding 9 hours of track time per year, with need for new rotors in 6 years, the cost spread is not bad at all.
Adding very abrasive pads: Pagid Green, Pagid RS14, Pagid RS15 will increase wear, so don't expect 60 track hours if using these pads, somewhere in the middle of 30-60 track hours should be about the life of PCCB, with the number very likely closer to 30.
The RS19 and RS29 compound work very well with PCCB. RS19 is the compound used by Fiat in the 430 Challenge (the race car on slicks), I have been using the same compound for track use, and my rear rotors are as good as new, 11,000 miles and 21 track days. Consider that Fiat rotors don't last as long as PCCB, so with these pads and PCCB the life expectancy should be as good or better than using stock PCCB pads (stock pads overheat at the track, if they don't, you're just babying the car around the track).
I also ran RS19 and RS29 with PCCB in my 996 and 997 GT3. Great life out of the PCCB rotors.
There is long and plenty of information on PCCB longevity, without getting down to the details (too much to write). SuperCup teams get less than 30 hours from them. I use a 200% ratio based on race cars engine/tranny/pads/rotors wear applied to my cars due to me using DOT-R tires and not being in Race conditions but DE conditions. With my use at my pace, PCCB rotors are good for 60 track hours, something like 40 track days.
Despite of written and published claims that PCCB rotors last 6X more than steel rotors (Christophorus with Porsche Motorsports interview), my experience and others experience is not close to the 6X ratio, more like a 2X ratio.
For the SuperCup, the minimum sets of PCCB rotors per season is 2, in just 12-14 races per season, short sprint races. Practice time adds more PCCB sets.
The Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Fiat/Chevrolet/Aston version of CCB is the same, with only Porsche being different and longer lasting. These Brembo CCB (not the PCCB) wear twice as fast as the PCCB. With track use (f430 Challenge), the front CCB rotors are good for 12-15 hours, rear ones for 18-24 hours.
So, if you track 6 days per year, it makes sense to stay with PCCB, because you're adding 9 hours of track time per year, with need for new rotors in 6 years, the cost spread is not bad at all.
Adding very abrasive pads: Pagid Green, Pagid RS14, Pagid RS15 will increase wear, so don't expect 60 track hours if using these pads, somewhere in the middle of 30-60 track hours should be about the life of PCCB, with the number very likely closer to 30.
The RS19 and RS29 compound work very well with PCCB. RS19 is the compound used by Fiat in the 430 Challenge (the race car on slicks), I have been using the same compound for track use, and my rear rotors are as good as new, 11,000 miles and 21 track days. Consider that Fiat rotors don't last as long as PCCB, so with these pads and PCCB the life expectancy should be as good or better than using stock PCCB pads (stock pads overheat at the track, if they don't, you're just babying the car around the track).
I also ran RS19 and RS29 with PCCB in my 996 and 997 GT3. Great life out of the PCCB rotors.
02-09-2012, 04:56 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL. Home of Florida Man.
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Stock pads won't last 8 days at Sebring, or 4 days either, regardless of PCCB or steel rotors. If they last that long, car is being babied around the track, in which case they would last 100 days at Sebring if lapping at 50mph.
There is long and plenty of information on PCCB longevity, without getting down to the details (too much to write). SuperCup teams get less than 30 hours from them. I use a 200% ratio based on race cars engine/tranny/pads/rotors wear applied to my cars due to me using DOT-R tires and not being in Race conditions but DE conditions. With my use at my pace, PCCB rotors are good for 60 track hours, something like 40 track days.
Despite of written and published claims that PCCB rotors last 6X more than steel rotors (Christophorus with Porsche Motorsports interview), my experience and others experience is not close to the 6X ratio, more like a 2X ratio.
For the SuperCup, the minimum sets of PCCB rotors per season is 2, in just 12-14 races per season, short sprint races. Practice time adds more PCCB sets.
The Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Fiat/Chevrolet/Aston version of CCB is the same, with only Porsche being different and longer lasting. These Brembo CCB (not the PCCB) wear twice as fast as the PCCB. With track use (f430 Challenge), the front CCB rotors are good for 12-15 hours, rear ones for 18-24 hours.
So, if you track 6 days per year, it makes sense to stay with PCCB, because you're adding 9 hours of track time per year, with need for new rotors in 6 years, the cost spread is not bad at all.
Adding very abrasive pads: Pagid Green, Pagid RS14, Pagid RS15 will increase wear, so don't expect 60 track hours if using these pads, somewhere in the middle of 30-60 track hours should be about the life of PCCB, with the number very likely closer to 30.
The RS19 and RS29 compound work very well with PCCB. RS19 is the compound used by Fiat in the 430 Challenge (the race car on slicks), I have been using the same compound for track use, and my rear rotors are as good as new, 11,000 miles and 21 track days. Consider that Fiat rotors don't last as long as PCCB, so with these pads and PCCB the life expectancy should be as good or better than using stock PCCB pads (stock pads overheat at the track, if they don't, you're just babying the car around the track).
I also ran RS19 and RS29 with PCCB in my 996 and 997 GT3. Great life out of the PCCB rotors.
There is long and plenty of information on PCCB longevity, without getting down to the details (too much to write). SuperCup teams get less than 30 hours from them. I use a 200% ratio based on race cars engine/tranny/pads/rotors wear applied to my cars due to me using DOT-R tires and not being in Race conditions but DE conditions. With my use at my pace, PCCB rotors are good for 60 track hours, something like 40 track days.
Despite of written and published claims that PCCB rotors last 6X more than steel rotors (Christophorus with Porsche Motorsports interview), my experience and others experience is not close to the 6X ratio, more like a 2X ratio.
For the SuperCup, the minimum sets of PCCB rotors per season is 2, in just 12-14 races per season, short sprint races. Practice time adds more PCCB sets.
The Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Fiat/Chevrolet/Aston version of CCB is the same, with only Porsche being different and longer lasting. These Brembo CCB (not the PCCB) wear twice as fast as the PCCB. With track use (f430 Challenge), the front CCB rotors are good for 12-15 hours, rear ones for 18-24 hours.
So, if you track 6 days per year, it makes sense to stay with PCCB, because you're adding 9 hours of track time per year, with need for new rotors in 6 years, the cost spread is not bad at all.
Adding very abrasive pads: Pagid Green, Pagid RS14, Pagid RS15 will increase wear, so don't expect 60 track hours if using these pads, somewhere in the middle of 30-60 track hours should be about the life of PCCB, with the number very likely closer to 30.
The RS19 and RS29 compound work very well with PCCB. RS19 is the compound used by Fiat in the 430 Challenge (the race car on slicks), I have been using the same compound for track use, and my rear rotors are as good as new, 11,000 miles and 21 track days. Consider that Fiat rotors don't last as long as PCCB, so with these pads and PCCB the life expectancy should be as good or better than using stock PCCB pads (stock pads overheat at the track, if they don't, you're just babying the car around the track).
I also ran RS19 and RS29 with PCCB in my 996 and 997 GT3. Great life out of the PCCB rotors.
02-09-2012, 11:54 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
GT3DE: it's a 2010 GT3 (non RS)
NJ-GT: thank you for the information
Actually, I do not have the budget to replace the PCCB rotors (whenever that may occur). And I do want a more aggressive pad. Stock pad just did not provide the grip. So, I called Craig at RennStore and I have new steel on the way. May look at selling the PCCB rotors as they are in excellent condition.
NJ-GT: thank you for the information
Actually, I do not have the budget to replace the PCCB rotors (whenever that may occur). And I do want a more aggressive pad. Stock pad just did not provide the grip. So, I called Craig at RennStore and I have new steel on the way. May look at selling the PCCB rotors as they are in excellent condition.
02-10-2012, 12:10 AM
#28
Drifting
GT3DE: it's a 2010 GT3 (non RS)
NJ-GT: thank you for the information
Actually, I do not have the budget to replace the PCCB rotors (whenever that may occur). And I do want a more aggressive pad. Stock pad just did not provide the grip. So, I called Craig at RennStore and I have new steel on the way. May look at selling the PCCB rotors as they are in excellent condition.
NJ-GT: thank you for the information
Actually, I do not have the budget to replace the PCCB rotors (whenever that may occur). And I do want a more aggressive pad. Stock pad just did not provide the grip. So, I called Craig at RennStore and I have new steel on the way. May look at selling the PCCB rotors as they are in excellent condition.
How many miles on them, street and track?
If you are serious about selling them please email or call me.
Thanks,
Clarke Simpson
703.898.2622
BadDogRacing@gmail.com
06-07-2012, 01:10 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts