naka

Ok. I was initially in the market from my first Porsche. I moved from a Honda S2000 to an E36 M3 (track car) then to an E46 M3.

Then I said, "OK, I've paid my dues. It's time to me to grow up and get a Porsche". Which I always wanted. So it was easy for me to say "if it's going to be a Porsche, it HAS to be a GT3". A real Porsche. Not a Poser. Not a marketing bluff for the masses. But the real thing.

So I started to research about it, and YOU guys convinced me to spend 20 grand more and get a GT3 RS instead. So off I went looking for the perfect car. And I found it.

But the 997.2 RS I was buying (deal was almost complete) was stolen probably 2-3 days before the seller got his check (you can blame the lease broker on that one). It was Maz' car, posted on another thread (my condolences to him, again, for his loss). So it was back to shopping mode.

So I have been researching magazines, forums and youtube.

And the Cayman R reviews have been quite impressive.

Yes, the GT3 RS is faster, and cooler, and more expensive, and has more presence. And so on.

But....the GTR and Corvette ZR1 are faster than the GT3 RS, but it really doesn't mean they're the better cars, right?

Money wise: GT3 RS is more money up front, but will depreciate less. Cayman R is less money up front, but probably more depreciation. So at the end, money spent will probably be the same, at the end of 4-5 years.

And the "I can't afford a 911 so I got a Cayman instead" effect some people sweat about, worries me not. I'm not that insecure that I need to compensate for deficiencies on other areas. My money goes to the better car. Just as simple as that.

My point is this:

Is the 911 an eternally compromised car? What would a Cayman do with 325mm-wide tires and a 450hp Mezger engine? Aren't the big fat rear tires an eternal needed compromise for the 911? Understeer and snap oversteer is all I hear about the 911.

"You need to learn to drive it". Well, yes. But it seems to me that the chassis is not perfect if it tells you what to do, rather than the other way around. Ask any professional racing driver. Confidence in the car is what makes them faster. And adjusting the car to their driving style, even more so.

I understand the "history", and the "race bred" heritage and so on. But really, that's an argument that my Dad and Grandpa would use when talking about Soccer teams of yesterday. But by this same argument, these same engineers and experts at the Porsche factory, are the very same ones that have designed the Cayman platform. They must know a thing or two about what's better, right?

Even Porsche itself tried to get rid of the 911 by creating the 928 and the 944, but the market ruled and the traditionalists would remain loyal to the 911 moniker. So when they failed, they dropped the front engine effort and put more money in making the 911 more drivable.

So now a days, in the times when more companies are making affordable high performance cars, and going after the 911, is the rear-engine configuration of the 911 here to stay, or are its days counted?

The 911 has always stayed ahead of the competition by being lighter and more powerful. It's always being about power/weight ratio. But, how much lighter can it get. Carbon fiber anybody?

Now, with the GTR embarrassing the 911's for half the price, and half a ton more of penalty weight, it makes you wonder what would happen if they decided to build a GTR "RS".

Only two things to fault the GTR: Looks and weight. Other than that, it's an engineering marvel. So what is Porsche gonna do about it?

The new 991 has a longer wheelbase and they inched the engine forward (and the car is faster than the 997). Even the 911 Porsche race cars are pushing the engine forward (as much as allowed by the regulations). So that's a clear admission that the previous configuration is not optimal.

Most reviews I read, applaud the Cayman handling over the 911. Yes, the 911 is faster, but because it has a better engine, wider tires, better rubber. Specially at the 'Ring, where Horsepower is what makes the faster car faster due to its long, long straights.

Have any of you driven the Cayman S or R? What are your opinions/takes on the 911's "little brother".

I know, at the end, the GT3 RS is always king. But from somebody who has driven neither at the track, I would like to hear your opinions.

gt2r

I have a Cayman S, 997 gt3 rs, gt3 and a 997 rs 4.0. Driven all but the 4.0 on the track. The Cayman is an excellently ballanced car. It is hard to make a mistake with it. The only problem I have is the suspension and HP on the track. On the street it is fine. It would perform much better with a stiffer suspension and more HP. Both can be added to the Cayman but the price really creaps up. The GT3 and all RS's are great on the track. HP is good, suspension is also much better than the Cayman S.
It really comes down to $. All the RS's are better cars-no doubt about it. They also holds their value much better. If you mod the Cayman you will never get your money out of it and possibly decrease its value.
I have no real complaints about the Cayman. If it were my only Porsche I would be happy. It is not a poser FYI. It is a real Porsche. If you can't afford a GT car and this is your first Porsche you should be estatic with it. It is a good car for the street and you can hawl plenty of lugage for a 2 week trip. Its great to drive and fun. Like I said before, it is hard to make a mistake with it on the track. You should love it..
If I could get only 1 car and could afford a RS I would buy it over the Cayman. If you don't track much the Cayman is excellent

naka

You hit the nail right on the head. That was exactly my point.

I just wonder. Just hypothetically. If the Mezger Engine and a better suspension with wider body was fit to the Cayman. Same weight. How many of you would buy a GT3 RS over a "Cayman RS".

Isn't he Cayman chassis what the 911 should be?

Yes, the Cayman is not all it could be. But doesn't the same apply to the 911?

I still believe I'll get the RS at the end. But I'll keep my eyes open for when Porsche decides to build a proper Cayman RS and let the market/racing decide who the flagship/icon factory car should be.

Snowboarder54

I recently had the opportunity to spend two days behind the wheel of an R on some of my local roads. I was pleasantly surprised with the car both handling and power. Don't get me wrong, it's no GT3 however it's the closed thing I have driven that Is currently made by Porsche and I have driven. I'm a die-hard GT3 fan and Porsche owner for 49 years having logged over 60K miles on my 3.9 and have had some serious miles in a 997s, caymans and even driven the boxster spyder. I would chose the R over anything other than a GT3. The R could use a little more power however that's easily fixed. My two cents!

Tuscany964

Hypothetically speaking I would probably buy a Cayman RS at that point as I don't see the point of having a 911 over a cayman if the 2 rear seats are not an option anyway. But the whole point is that Porsche does not build a cayman rs whereas it does build a gt3. To bring a cayman to the level of a gt3 (rs or not) would probably cost more than buying a gt3 in the first place and the cayman would also suffer huge depreciation. Hence a gt3 is the better buy. Saying that I would love a cayman r but if only if I could get the whole gt3 thing out of my system - and I don't know if that will ever happen.

Tuscany964

Interesting opinion after 3mins and then says it all at 4'40" ;-)

gt2r

Post #2
Hypothetically Porsche will never make the Cayman S, R, RS faster than the GT3 or GT3RS. Again you can modify it but I'm not sure the chassis would take the power over the long run. I looked into what you are suggesting. Drop a GT3 motor in, redoo the suspension with shocks and having more camber. The cost wasn't worth it. If you got into widening the body work which I never thought about, you could buy a Carrera GT for the mod price.

Porsche will never produce the car you are asking about. The new mid-engine car that is suppose to be out in 2014 (not the 918) will be a mid engine car. It should be supburb but it will cost around $300,000. That should perform better than the 911 RS..But you gona track that car with that price??

naka

LOL!!! I think we all suffer from the same disease!!!

aussie jimmy

i really like the cayman r.
of course it's definitely a lot slower around the track ( 1.48 vs 1.42 around local track ), but it could be your one car for street/track, whereas i still do not believe the rs is suitable as a daily especially where i live where the traffic is mega and the roads are pot-holed, badly repaired/maintained, speedhumps everywhere.....
over here, a new cayman r runs about $170k, whereas a used 7.2 rs is about $310k, so big difference in money. used 6.2 3 runs about $130k, so this is the car to compare with in dollar terms, and this is even more compromised for the street, no warranty etc.
having said this, the gt3 is legendary in a way the r never will be, so maybe the best option is an r for the street and a 6.2 for the track. still cheaper than a 7.2rs.

mitch48

I own an '06 Cayman S, have had it for two years, and I love it. I previously owned a 944 and a 944 T before moving to BMW's when I had a family and needed four doors. ('95 540i/6). Then I moved to e36 M3's, street and track, then e46 M3 and sold that car to buy the Cayman.

Porsche learned from the 944T not to make a "lesser" car that would out-perform the sacred 911, and rightfully so from their marketing standpoint. Everyone admits that if they put the time/engineering/money into the Cayman that they've put in the 911 it would run off and hide from their standard bearer. I discussed the Cayman suspension with a pro racer at Barber and he said if they could put the advanced suspension in the car (rules won't allow it), the car would be faster than the racing 911's as well.

I don't track my car so I'm perfectly happy with the suspension as it is, and the handling is just superb. Porsche admitted in the mid-80's that the rear engine layout was far from optimal, witness the 928, but the market demanded the 911 so they've stuck with it, as it is admittedly an icon and will likely never go away as long as Porsche is viable. As you say, the new 991 moves the engine forward a few inches in another attempt to get some of the weight away from the rear overhang, and they will most likely keep doing that as much as possible. Ideally, the 911's engine would be behind the driver's seat, and then the CG would be ideal, but then you'd have a Cayman and not a 911.

I never worried about anyone thinking I bought the Cayman because I couldn't afford a 911. I wanted a Cayman from the introduction of it, and while I admit the 911 has the mystique and is a terrific performance car, I got over my lust for one years ago. I have a friend who has owned several, and he backed one into a rather large tombstone in a corner when he lifted off the throttle. It was expensive. This would almost never happen with the Cayman, certainly not under the circumstances he was in.

I would love a Cayman R but for now will be content with my 'S' as I have it just about as I like it and it runs great. Maybe in a few years when the first R's come down in price (I never buy new) I'll get one, if I can still get in one at my then-age. Until then, I'll be having a blast in my 'S'.

naka

Isn't that sad? Not making a car as good as it could be, but holding it back to meet certain marketing requirements.

Shouldn't cost much more money for Porsche to build a Cayman RS. Like BMW did to the 1M. It just put M3 suspension to a 135i, and widened the body. It even uses the same wheels and tires. And people bought them like hotcakes, over the M3.

But as you said, Porsche would never do that. Sad indeed. Unless they go racing with the Cayman and homologation rules force them to build a proper Cayman RS. You can only wish.

Until then, we shall all let the GT3 parasite live within our hearts.

Tuscany964

I'm hoping for huge depreciation on used cayman r's but not many are being sold locally. Until 6gt3 is cheaper than cayman r it's really a no brainer for me. To make it interesting cayman would have to be newer, much less km and cheaper... Although cayman cup cars are becoming dirt cheap and very tempting. Obviously not a dd in my case.

aussie jimmy

no used cayman r's have hit the market here yet. used spyders are around the 130 mark, so it's safe to say the r will be the same. that makes it same money as 6.2gt3.
if was i was just gonna use it on street, then cayman would fit the bill quite nicely. maybe a few track days per year as well thrown in, nothing too serious, just happy lappery. but if serious tracking were on the agenda, then it has to be a caged 6.2 and get a cheaper car for the street. then things become expensive and slippery slopes are willingly approached.....
i stopped tracking for a year, and have enjoyed a little extra bonus disposable income, otherwise i was flat broke.

TRAKCAR

Walter is a tall guy, how does he fit in?
I tried and don't.

aussie jimmy

television makes everything a reality.
yes, it is pretty snug in the cayman, and i'm only a little bloke.