997gt3north

A 2008 GT2 has both SC & TC and is a totally different animal, as we all know, than a linear NA GT3 with just TC. If you are willing to write large cheques for rotors, calipers and pads, I can almost see that SC would allow you to be extremely aggressive, with the computer constantly saving you, to put down a flyer of a lap - as per your observation.

Larry Cable

My point was really that with TC enabled (despite it being a GT2 and not a Gt3) a single lap was capable of generating rear brake temps sufficient to cause the rear pads to smoke.

My experience with a .1 GT3 on the ring, while not generating enough heat to cause the pads to smoke, did increase the lap times, and induced significant additional wear to the rear pads, which after 3 days of lapping were over 60% worn (when driven on a combination of dry-TC and wet+TC laps), I put this down to the increased (initial) rear bias and TC on the rear brakes.

I dont really know if SC+TC would enable faster laps. my experience at the ring was that on a dry track TC off, PASM normal, sport "on" resulted in faster smoother laps.

In the wet, I was happier with TC engaged... YMMV

interesting I have not seen much/any discussion on the SC+TC (from the GT2 I think) on the 997.2 GT3's ...

MM3.9GT3

I always run the first two laps with TC on, and when everything is warmed up, including me, I turn it off. It will save you just a little, but it is NOT PSM.

On the street, I never turn TC off.

997gt3north

My secondary point was that it was most likely SC and not TC that was causing the 'smoke' / rotor/pad destruction.

There have been 2 reports on rennlist alone where a 'new' GT2 owner basically destroyed their new rear pccb rotors in one day at the track - and they didn't even know they were doing it. Since that would be virtually impossible with a gt3, I would conclude that it is SC muting the power delivery that is making a GT2 drivable for a 'newbie' (a sort of Nissan GTR effect) - thus it was likely the SC effect you were seeing (maybe also TC in combination)

BBMGT3

I'm going to go ahead and try life without TC next time I am on track. Will build up pace slowly and find the limits.

However, I will note that my rear brake pads and discs have equal or LESS wear than my fronts, especially the discs. So I don't think the system is coming on much. Ideally, I would switch it off and notice no difference in the car.

I do engage ABS from time to time but thats usually when familiarizing with track conditions before I get down to business. Otherwise, its the odd pulse here and there, nothing that lasts longer than a fraction of a second.

Yes, some may say that maybe I'm not going quickly enough. I don't believe thats the case; 997gt3north put it best; its like Darwinism; if your control advances to a level where steering corrections become automatic, reflex movements, it actually becomes very difficult to get the car out of shape. Your brain becomes programmed to find the limit and not go beyond it.

Does leaving the TC on interfere with the LSD?

Mvez

The purposefully designed LSD, or lack thereof, actually let's TC do it's job before it does anything for you. Read the "LSD Buster" thread, that's opening a whole other can of worms.

If you want to be quick without TC on, a proper LSD rebuild is a must, at some point. I already learned that the hard way.

BBMGT3

Already have the guard LSD

CRex

TC in the 997.1 is hardly foolproof. You can and will spin. My own experience below. In hindsight the incident was caused by pure donkiness on my part (slow unwind coupled with a slight lift of the throttle--guilty as charged), but it goes to show what TC isn't:



The 997.2 system got expanded in the direction of the GT2 (i.e. SC+TC) where SC proactively cuts throttle and brakes the rear when it feels the rear may be at risk of losing traction. Having done my 50-odd hours of track time in the new car, I'm convinced that SC is a hinderance on the track. I'd keep it on for street driving for obvious reasons.

As for TC, I'd echo others' comments that it usually doesn't intervene (except in the very slow corners, and only when I try to "steamroll" through the turn without having settled the chassis). It works very subtly and I've only seen the light come on once or twice on the track. Have no doubt that it's working though--my buddies got pictures of me returning to the paddock with rear brakes billowing smoke...

BBMGT3

Hope you didn't hit anything with that...

From the vid it looked like what got you was getting on the throttle without unwinding the wheel at all, plus the 2nd steering input maybe unsettled the car, but I couldn't really tell about the lift.

Mvez

That's partly why you aren't seeing the TC light flicker as much. The only time I ever tried driving with it on, it lit up like a F-ing christmas tree. Can't wait to get my Guard installed.

CorsicanBB

Hey B, Detlef explained to me that TC applies the rear brakes frequently even when the light does not come on. I drove with TC on at Yas last year with really worn tires and I noticed a long trail of brake dust when I slowed down to park in the pit garages, even though I never saw the light come on. Our cars have so much grip, I leave it off at the track all the time. On the road, it is always on, unless I want to slide the back out on pavement blocks U turns, which I do everyday when leaving my office :-)

Larry Cable

correct, my understanding is that the EBC is active while not turning on the dash light

BBMGT3

Ok, that settles it. I have never felt any rear-brake intrusion, but its probably quite subtle. Will get rid of it. As lots of people have said, TCon was not saving me from spinning anywhere but in 1st or 2nd gear under power. What I don't want to do if find out that TC was coming to my aid in high-g, 3rd and 4th gear corners. Doesn't sound like it.

CRex

All true. One rare occasion when I saw TC actively intruding (lights blinking) was when I ran my Hooter R6's to the cords. Tried to drive a couple more laps with TC totally off at that point but it was sliding so bad that I could've been mistaken for an entrant in the Asian Formula-D drift series...

BBMGT3

I downloaded the telemetry from my Vbox last night and was focused on combined-G's under braking, corner entry, apex and exit. For the most part, lateral+long g's always = between 1 & 1.2g (on MPSC), with nice transitions between lat&long forces (end of braking, trail braking, unwinding to exit). Track was pretty dusty though, gained 3s/lap by the end of the 3 hour session (open pitlane). The TC question arose from some corners in 3rd gear where you've got 0.1-0.3g of acceleration with 0.8-0.9g of lateral load. Not 100% sure what MPSC's can take in terms of max load (track conditions probably account for a lot of the variability) but the car felt good...