I miss My GT3....
09-23-2011, 05:01 AM
#16
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09-23-2011, 05:02 AM
#17
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09-23-2011, 10:55 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Here is my take. You can get an early 2008 Scuderia without stripes on that price range, but you will be looking at a car around 10k miles. Nothing wrong with mileage, just get a reading on the clutch (the clutch is cheap, contact me if you ever need one), and the CCB rotors life.
The carbon package costs $20k+ to replicate from the parts bin, and adds $10k to resale, it is a standard feature in all the 2009 and the last batch of 2008. This package reduces total weight by 30 lbs. With the carbon package and no fuel, the Scuderia weighs 2,976 lbs (verified by me on electronic scales), same car without carbon package is 3,006 lbs. For a reference, the 2011 U.S. GT3 RS 3.8 with no options is 3,116 lbs with no fuel.
Then there is mileage, cars under 1,000 mile have a price, cars around 5,000 miles lose $10k in value, and cars with 10k miles lose $20k in value compared to a car with less than 1,000 miles.
The 2009 cars carry a resale $10k higher than the 2008 Scuderias.
A 2009 Scuderia with less than 1,000 miles carries a resale of $215k today. Same car but as a 2008 would be at $205k. Same 08 without CF package $195k. Add 10,000 miles, $175k. No stripe $170k.
Then other factors apply such as motivated buyer, or motivated seller, bad resale colors, hot color (the Silverstone Grey is in big demand), options (the option list is gigantic). There are a few cars with accidents that have been repaired and they are for sale out there.
The 360 Challenge Stradale has been sitting in the $135k range for cars with no histories. The problem is that there are many Stradales with histories (accidents), the car was tricky at the limit, tail happy and that bites some drivers, the fix was easy, just proper alignment.
Last Stradales were produced in 2004, and clean ones have a strong buyer's market. In my opinion, the Scuderia will not be cheaper than the Stradale, because both cars are based on the 360 Modena, F430 respectively, same philosophy. I think that the gap is going to settle around $20k between these two cars in the long term, as a $20k gap would justify to get the more reliable car. The F1 transmission in the Stradale and F430 is laggy, the F1 transmision in the Scuderia and 599 GTO is awesome, better than a PDK or a BMW DCT.
I've watched 3 years of Stradale market and they don't seem to be moving South anymore, so when the $170k Scuderias get in the $155k range they should settle as they will be just $20k higher priced than a clean Stradale. From there on supply/demand would play a stronger role, as there are not really that many Stradales and Scuderias in U.S.
The Stradale was not affected by the F458 Italia release, but it was already in the $135k range 2 years ago. The Scuderia was affected by the F458 Italia release, but once it gets within the $20k price range of the Stradale, it would stay there.
Brembo makes a straight swap of steel brake rotors, identical to the ones sold by Sharkwerks (two piece floating) for the Scuderia. For track use, there are affordable choices of track pads. So, the brakes cost issue is no longer an issue.
The carbon package costs $20k+ to replicate from the parts bin, and adds $10k to resale, it is a standard feature in all the 2009 and the last batch of 2008. This package reduces total weight by 30 lbs. With the carbon package and no fuel, the Scuderia weighs 2,976 lbs (verified by me on electronic scales), same car without carbon package is 3,006 lbs. For a reference, the 2011 U.S. GT3 RS 3.8 with no options is 3,116 lbs with no fuel.
Then there is mileage, cars under 1,000 mile have a price, cars around 5,000 miles lose $10k in value, and cars with 10k miles lose $20k in value compared to a car with less than 1,000 miles.
The 2009 cars carry a resale $10k higher than the 2008 Scuderias.
A 2009 Scuderia with less than 1,000 miles carries a resale of $215k today. Same car but as a 2008 would be at $205k. Same 08 without CF package $195k. Add 10,000 miles, $175k. No stripe $170k.
Then other factors apply such as motivated buyer, or motivated seller, bad resale colors, hot color (the Silverstone Grey is in big demand), options (the option list is gigantic). There are a few cars with accidents that have been repaired and they are for sale out there.
The 360 Challenge Stradale has been sitting in the $135k range for cars with no histories. The problem is that there are many Stradales with histories (accidents), the car was tricky at the limit, tail happy and that bites some drivers, the fix was easy, just proper alignment.
Last Stradales were produced in 2004, and clean ones have a strong buyer's market. In my opinion, the Scuderia will not be cheaper than the Stradale, because both cars are based on the 360 Modena, F430 respectively, same philosophy. I think that the gap is going to settle around $20k between these two cars in the long term, as a $20k gap would justify to get the more reliable car. The F1 transmission in the Stradale and F430 is laggy, the F1 transmision in the Scuderia and 599 GTO is awesome, better than a PDK or a BMW DCT.
I've watched 3 years of Stradale market and they don't seem to be moving South anymore, so when the $170k Scuderias get in the $155k range they should settle as they will be just $20k higher priced than a clean Stradale. From there on supply/demand would play a stronger role, as there are not really that many Stradales and Scuderias in U.S.
The Stradale was not affected by the F458 Italia release, but it was already in the $135k range 2 years ago. The Scuderia was affected by the F458 Italia release, but once it gets within the $20k price range of the Stradale, it would stay there.
Brembo makes a straight swap of steel brake rotors, identical to the ones sold by Sharkwerks (two piece floating) for the Scuderia. For track use, there are affordable choices of track pads. So, the brakes cost issue is no longer an issue.
09-23-2011, 01:06 PM
#19
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Awesome post Rad... Your write-up was one of the most informative posts on the Scud that I have read on a weboard. Thanks.
When I met Jenks, Peter & a cadre of Rennlisters first at Road Atlanta, then again on the famed "Tail of the Dragon" Rennlist-run back in April, I had previously stopped by Ferrari of Atlanta and test drove a 430 Scuderia. I was instantly hooked, and have been debating getting one as a pure track car, or upgrading to the 7.2 GT3 RS. Currently, I am leaning RS - but not by much.
I think 930man needs to get back in the saddle. The GT3 is still the quintessential Porsche. My '06C2S Cab makes me yawn, and the juices flow once I get behind the wheel of my 6.2GT3. I really enjoy the rawness of the GT3 line... They are the perfect 911.
Great thread, great posts - thanks guys.
-B
When I met Jenks, Peter & a cadre of Rennlisters first at Road Atlanta, then again on the famed "Tail of the Dragon" Rennlist-run back in April, I had previously stopped by Ferrari of Atlanta and test drove a 430 Scuderia. I was instantly hooked, and have been debating getting one as a pure track car, or upgrading to the 7.2 GT3 RS. Currently, I am leaning RS - but not by much.
I think 930man needs to get back in the saddle. The GT3 is still the quintessential Porsche. My '06C2S Cab makes me yawn, and the juices flow once I get behind the wheel of my 6.2GT3. I really enjoy the rawness of the GT3 line... They are the perfect 911.
Great thread, great posts - thanks guys.
-B
09-23-2011, 04:15 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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Matt
Great to see you at VIR this week, but too bad the weather sucked! Hope you work out your GT3 situation. Good luck with the clutch and see you in April at the latest. If you can reconsider the Glen in early Oct let me know!
Mike
Great to see you at VIR this week, but too bad the weather sucked! Hope you work out your GT3 situation. Good luck with the clutch and see you in April at the latest. If you can reconsider the Glen in early Oct let me know!
Mike
09-24-2011, 01:36 AM
#21
GT3 player par excellence
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09-26-2011, 12:07 AM
#22
Ken I agree dude..
BUT, let me say this, after seeing the new 458 challenge race's intertwined with the 430 challenge's at Homestead yesterday, I almost felt bad for the 430 owners LOL.. The 458's were just SO MUCH FASTER, sounded and looks so much better too...
How I feel about owning a Stradale now too, I still salivate over them and I always wanted one (as you and many know) but could never muster up the guts to own one (well replacing my Porsche) for the fear of them breaking.. Now it;s just like, so old technology wise :/ This guy was at PBIR here in FLA with a yellow strad , sickest color combo/alcantara interior yellow stitch and crashed it 2nd lap in... As rad mentioned alignment is crucial, the car looked so sloppy out there , and just sounded sluggish/shifted slow...
430 scud is just SICK SICk... want one badly and may one day acquire one, Rad, how are they holding up? I just always look at the Porsche alternative (GT3 RS) because of my driving style, very hard! I know you are a track guy, and have driven the ***** off them top to bottom, honest thoughts?
Hope all is well Matt/Rad/Ken, haven't spoken to you guy's in quite a bit!
BUT, let me say this, after seeing the new 458 challenge race's intertwined with the 430 challenge's at Homestead yesterday, I almost felt bad for the 430 owners LOL.. The 458's were just SO MUCH FASTER, sounded and looks so much better too...
How I feel about owning a Stradale now too, I still salivate over them and I always wanted one (as you and many know) but could never muster up the guts to own one (well replacing my Porsche) for the fear of them breaking.. Now it;s just like, so old technology wise :/ This guy was at PBIR here in FLA with a yellow strad , sickest color combo/alcantara interior yellow stitch and crashed it 2nd lap in... As rad mentioned alignment is crucial, the car looked so sloppy out there , and just sounded sluggish/shifted slow...
430 scud is just SICK SICk... want one badly and may one day acquire one, Rad, how are they holding up? I just always look at the Porsche alternative (GT3 RS) because of my driving style, very hard! I know you are a track guy, and have driven the ***** off them top to bottom, honest thoughts?
Hope all is well Matt/Rad/Ken, haven't spoken to you guy's in quite a bit!
09-29-2011, 09:09 AM
#24
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09-29-2011, 09:30 AM
#27
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Man it was good to see you... I. Will let you know about wgi... I was disappointed ... Clutch lost a puck but fixed now!
09-29-2011, 12:34 PM
#28
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wow>>>
what a great post. tons of awesome information in here.
thanks!!
thanks!!
Here is my take. You can get an early 2008 Scuderia without stripes on that price range, but you will be looking at a car around 10k miles. Nothing wrong with mileage, just get a reading on the clutch (the clutch is cheap, contact me if you ever need one), and the CCB rotors life.
The carbon package costs $20k+ to replicate from the parts bin, and adds $10k to resale, it is a standard feature in all the 2009 and the last batch of 2008. This package reduces total weight by 30 lbs. With the carbon package and no fuel, the Scuderia weighs 2,976 lbs (verified by me on electronic scales), same car without carbon package is 3,006 lbs. For a reference, the 2011 U.S. GT3 RS 3.8 with no options is 3,116 lbs with no fuel.
Then there is mileage, cars under 1,000 mile have a price, cars around 5,000 miles lose $10k in value, and cars with 10k miles lose $20k in value compared to a car with less than 1,000 miles.
The 2009 cars carry a resale $10k higher than the 2008 Scuderias.
A 2009 Scuderia with less than 1,000 miles carries a resale of $215k today. Same car but as a 2008 would be at $205k. Same 08 without CF package $195k. Add 10,000 miles, $175k. No stripe $170k.
Then other factors apply such as motivated buyer, or motivated seller, bad resale colors, hot color (the Silverstone Grey is in big demand), options (the option list is gigantic). There are a few cars with accidents that have been repaired and they are for sale out there.
The 360 Challenge Stradale has been sitting in the $135k range for cars with no histories. The problem is that there are many Stradales with histories (accidents), the car was tricky at the limit, tail happy and that bites some drivers, the fix was easy, just proper alignment.
Last Stradales were produced in 2004, and clean ones have a strong buyer's market. In my opinion, the Scuderia will not be cheaper than the Stradale, because both cars are based on the 360 Modena, F430 respectively, same philosophy. I think that the gap is going to settle around $20k between these two cars in the long term, as a $20k gap would justify to get the more reliable car. The F1 transmission in the Stradale and F430 is laggy, the F1 transmision in the Scuderia and 599 GTO is awesome, better than a PDK or a BMW DCT.
I've watched 3 years of Stradale market and they don't seem to be moving South anymore, so when the $170k Scuderias get in the $155k range they should settle as they will be just $20k higher priced than a clean Stradale. From there on supply/demand would play a stronger role, as there are not really that many Stradales and Scuderias in U.S.
The Stradale was not affected by the F458 Italia release, but it was already in the $135k range 2 years ago. The Scuderia was affected by the F458 Italia release, but once it gets within the $20k price range of the Stradale, it would stay there.
Brembo makes a straight swap of steel brake rotors, identical to the ones sold by Sharkwerks (two piece floating) for the Scuderia. For track use, there are affordable choices of track pads. So, the brakes cost issue is no longer an issue.
The carbon package costs $20k+ to replicate from the parts bin, and adds $10k to resale, it is a standard feature in all the 2009 and the last batch of 2008. This package reduces total weight by 30 lbs. With the carbon package and no fuel, the Scuderia weighs 2,976 lbs (verified by me on electronic scales), same car without carbon package is 3,006 lbs. For a reference, the 2011 U.S. GT3 RS 3.8 with no options is 3,116 lbs with no fuel.
Then there is mileage, cars under 1,000 mile have a price, cars around 5,000 miles lose $10k in value, and cars with 10k miles lose $20k in value compared to a car with less than 1,000 miles.
The 2009 cars carry a resale $10k higher than the 2008 Scuderias.
A 2009 Scuderia with less than 1,000 miles carries a resale of $215k today. Same car but as a 2008 would be at $205k. Same 08 without CF package $195k. Add 10,000 miles, $175k. No stripe $170k.
Then other factors apply such as motivated buyer, or motivated seller, bad resale colors, hot color (the Silverstone Grey is in big demand), options (the option list is gigantic). There are a few cars with accidents that have been repaired and they are for sale out there.
The 360 Challenge Stradale has been sitting in the $135k range for cars with no histories. The problem is that there are many Stradales with histories (accidents), the car was tricky at the limit, tail happy and that bites some drivers, the fix was easy, just proper alignment.
Last Stradales were produced in 2004, and clean ones have a strong buyer's market. In my opinion, the Scuderia will not be cheaper than the Stradale, because both cars are based on the 360 Modena, F430 respectively, same philosophy. I think that the gap is going to settle around $20k between these two cars in the long term, as a $20k gap would justify to get the more reliable car. The F1 transmission in the Stradale and F430 is laggy, the F1 transmision in the Scuderia and 599 GTO is awesome, better than a PDK or a BMW DCT.
I've watched 3 years of Stradale market and they don't seem to be moving South anymore, so when the $170k Scuderias get in the $155k range they should settle as they will be just $20k higher priced than a clean Stradale. From there on supply/demand would play a stronger role, as there are not really that many Stradales and Scuderias in U.S.
The Stradale was not affected by the F458 Italia release, but it was already in the $135k range 2 years ago. The Scuderia was affected by the F458 Italia release, but once it gets within the $20k price range of the Stradale, it would stay there.
Brembo makes a straight swap of steel brake rotors, identical to the ones sold by Sharkwerks (two piece floating) for the Scuderia. For track use, there are affordable choices of track pads. So, the brakes cost issue is no longer an issue.
