MPSC v. Pilot Super Sport
11-10-2011, 09:28 AM
#46
Two tracks used, Dubai Autodrome and Yas Marina F1 circuit
Am using PSS and MPSC N1
On PSS:
Track conditions were good, it was just after a race weekend so surface was very clean. Its extremely grippy asphalt in any case. G-plot showed lat g's of 1.0-1.1g peaks and long of 1.2 or so. Combined g's would reach up to 1.4g. Pretty good. 2nd attempt was on a dirtier day, but by the end of the session things improved quite a bit and I was peaking at about 1.0g combined (dubai autodrome)
On MPSC
Track conditions were awful, was very dusty and dirty, was the first day of the season. Nevertheless, once the track cleaned up I was achieving combined g of about 1.4-1.5g. Have not taken them to Yas yet, but I imagine that the grippier surface there will give 0.2-0.3g more.
If you are not able to get the needed heat into the MPSC's, you will never get the grip. Hot ambient temps here help - never lack of tire temp, but maybe on tracks that are 50 degrees or less the PSS will appear better...
11-10-2011, 10:34 AM
#47
My experiences with 2 days at Mosport (approx 500 km) and 7 at Calabogie Motorsports Park (approx 2200 km). I have approx 15,000 km of track experience with the same car over 11 seasons.
As mentioned before, outer edges finished on all 4 tires with fronts corded.
I have a 2001 996C2 with PSS9s and the most aggressive alignment possible without modifying the suspension further (EU Autowerks Toronto set-up). Given the 300 HP of the 3.4, I'm not going all that fast compared to you GT-3 pilots. I rate myself as an advanced intermediate and my many instructors tell me that my driving style is smooth.
I found that these tires heated up very quickly and I played with pressures over the first few days ending up at 36/38 or so hot. I did note that outer edges were starting to wear sooner than I had expected and increased pressure a few PSI as the middle and inner tread appeared to have no wear at all.
I was running Advan AD-07s previously (2 sets). Much longer track life especially as I could swap side to side by dismounting and remounting...impossible with the MPSS.
My friends at EU Autowerks (very track knowledgeable and know my driving style well) were surprised at the amount of wear.
I will go back to Advan AD-08s next season.
As mentioned before, outer edges finished on all 4 tires with fronts corded.
I have a 2001 996C2 with PSS9s and the most aggressive alignment possible without modifying the suspension further (EU Autowerks Toronto set-up). Given the 300 HP of the 3.4, I'm not going all that fast compared to you GT-3 pilots. I rate myself as an advanced intermediate and my many instructors tell me that my driving style is smooth.
I found that these tires heated up very quickly and I played with pressures over the first few days ending up at 36/38 or so hot. I did note that outer edges were starting to wear sooner than I had expected and increased pressure a few PSI as the middle and inner tread appeared to have no wear at all.
I was running Advan AD-07s previously (2 sets). Much longer track life especially as I could swap side to side by dismounting and remounting...impossible with the MPSS.
My friends at EU Autowerks (very track knowledgeable and know my driving style well) were surprised at the amount of wear.
I will go back to Advan AD-08s next season.
11-10-2011, 10:57 AM
#48
Hi Paul
Two tracks used, Dubai Autodrome and Yas Marina F1 circuit
Am using PSS and MPSC N1
On PSS:
Track conditions were good, it was just after a race weekend so surface was very clean. Its extremely grippy asphalt in any case. G-plot showed lat g's of 1.0-1.1g peaks and long of 1.2 or so. Combined g's would reach up to 1.4g. Pretty good. 2nd attempt was on a dirtier day, but by the end of the session things improved quite a bit and I was peaking at about 1.0g combined (dubai autodrome)
On MPSC
Track conditions were awful, was very dusty and dirty, was the first day of the season. Nevertheless, once the track cleaned up I was achieving combined g of about 1.4-1.5g. Have not taken them to Yas yet, but I imagine that the grippier surface there will give 0.2-0.3g more.
If you are not able to get the needed heat into the MPSC's, you will never get the grip. Hot ambient temps here help - never lack of tire temp, but maybe on tracks that are 50 degrees or less the PSS will appear better...
Two tracks used, Dubai Autodrome and Yas Marina F1 circuit
Am using PSS and MPSC N1
On PSS:
Track conditions were good, it was just after a race weekend so surface was very clean. Its extremely grippy asphalt in any case. G-plot showed lat g's of 1.0-1.1g peaks and long of 1.2 or so. Combined g's would reach up to 1.4g. Pretty good. 2nd attempt was on a dirtier day, but by the end of the session things improved quite a bit and I was peaking at about 1.0g combined (dubai autodrome)
On MPSC
Track conditions were awful, was very dusty and dirty, was the first day of the season. Nevertheless, once the track cleaned up I was achieving combined g of about 1.4-1.5g. Have not taken them to Yas yet, but I imagine that the grippier surface there will give 0.2-0.3g more.
If you are not able to get the needed heat into the MPSC's, you will never get the grip. Hot ambient temps here help - never lack of tire temp, but maybe on tracks that are 50 degrees or less the PSS will appear better...
I don't run data but your numbers for the most part ring true - with the exception of the upper level combined data for the OE Cup+ tires. I have seen a lots of data with Hoosier R6s (1.4-1.6G) range and having driven them myself, back to back vs the OE MPSC+ tires on a twistie track (Calabogie in Ontario - a track that massively rewards grip), in my mind I just cannot believe the OE Cup+ tires are that close to R6s as you can't even keep close to an R6 driven car in the corners at Calabogie with the OE tires - in one corner alone you lose car lengths of distance trying to keep up.
I really appreciate the data.
My butt meter agrees with the 1.1-1.2G for the PSS
My butt and track times would put the OE Cup+ at 1.1-1.3G
Hoosier R6 are 1.4-1.5G no question about it - seen the data - felt it my self.
There is no question track temperature may be an issue here - I believe this for sure. I know with a car that I use to track years ago on 'real' 17" Cup tires, they needed to be very hot to reveal all their grip - that said, these Cup+ tires as we all know are 'de-tuned' and while absolutely needing heat, I don't believe they need and benefit as much as the 'real' cups - but they are hard blocks for sure at cold temps.
I was sort of hoping you were using the NSpec tires that came with the 3.8RS as that rear tire, according to some, is definitely faster than the NSpec found on the 997gt3.mk1.
Thanks
Paul
11-10-2011, 11:36 AM
#49
That's good data - thanks.
I don't run data but your numbers for the most part ring true - with the exception of the upper level combined data for the OE Cup+ tires. I have seen a lots of data with Hoosier R6s (1.4-1.6G) range and having driven them myself, back to back vs the OE MPSC+ tires on a twistie track (Calabogie in Ontario - a track that massively rewards grip), in my mind I just cannot believe the OE Cup+ tires are that close to R6s as you can't even keep close to an R6 driven car in the corners at Calabogie with the OE tires - in one corner alone you lose car lengths of distance trying to keep up.
I really appreciate the data.
My butt meter agrees with the 1.1-1.2G for the PSS
My butt and track times would put the OE Cup+ at 1.1-1.3G
Hoosier R6 are 1.4-1.5G no question about it - seen the data - felt it my self.
There is no question track temperature may be an issue here - I believe this for sure. I know with a car that I use to track years ago on 'real' 17" Cup tires, they needed to be very hot to reveal all their grip - that said, these Cup+ tires as we all know are 'de-tuned' and while absolutely needing heat, I don't believe they need and benefit as much as the 'real' cups - but they are hard blocks for sure at cold temps.
I was sort of hoping you were using the NSpec tires that came with the 3.8RS as that rear tire, according to some, is definitely faster than the NSpec found on the 997gt3.mk1.
Thanks
Paul
I don't run data but your numbers for the most part ring true - with the exception of the upper level combined data for the OE Cup+ tires. I have seen a lots of data with Hoosier R6s (1.4-1.6G) range and having driven them myself, back to back vs the OE MPSC+ tires on a twistie track (Calabogie in Ontario - a track that massively rewards grip), in my mind I just cannot believe the OE Cup+ tires are that close to R6s as you can't even keep close to an R6 driven car in the corners at Calabogie with the OE tires - in one corner alone you lose car lengths of distance trying to keep up.
I really appreciate the data.
My butt meter agrees with the 1.1-1.2G for the PSS
My butt and track times would put the OE Cup+ at 1.1-1.3G
Hoosier R6 are 1.4-1.5G no question about it - seen the data - felt it my self.
There is no question track temperature may be an issue here - I believe this for sure. I know with a car that I use to track years ago on 'real' 17" Cup tires, they needed to be very hot to reveal all their grip - that said, these Cup+ tires as we all know are 'de-tuned' and while absolutely needing heat, I don't believe they need and benefit as much as the 'real' cups - but they are hard blocks for sure at cold temps.
I was sort of hoping you were using the NSpec tires that came with the 3.8RS as that rear tire, according to some, is definitely faster than the NSpec found on the 997gt3.mk1.
Thanks
Paul
11-10-2011, 01:09 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
I think its a mistake to think of the MPSS as a replacement for MPSC the design centers are different, the MPSS is an ultra high performance "summer" street tyre and the MPSC is a "hybrid" street/track tyre. The former is not intended as a replacement for the latter, but can be used in circumstances where the latter (MPSC) is not in its element (standing water etc).
I am *really* surprised however to hear about the rapid wear/failure of the MPSS shoulders after what appears to be a fairly short life on track.
I would expect all things being equal, for the MPSS out significantly outlive comparable tyres on track due to the temp mgmt technology and the wear characteristics of the dual compound, so I just dont get why these tyres wore so quickly...
I am *really* surprised however to hear about the rapid wear/failure of the MPSS shoulders after what appears to be a fairly short life on track.
I would expect all things being equal, for the MPSS out significantly outlive comparable tyres on track due to the temp mgmt technology and the wear characteristics of the dual compound, so I just dont get why these tyres wore so quickly...
