MPSC v. Pilot Super Sport
11-09-2011, 10:52 AM
#31
2 completely different tires. unless on the track or agressive summer drive one wont be able to extract the performance. N rated tyre compound is fine for wet and cold/wet drive home.
11-09-2011, 12:38 PM
#32
My 2 cents, try your hardest to scrub the tires in a parking lot before your first track day - light them up / slide them - get the release agent out.
After you do this, the tires are not 3-4 seconds slower per 2 minute lap in my experience - it is maybe 1 second difference than OE Cup+ tires (maybe less). But this is at Mosport in 75 degree weather - not on a short twistie track at 100 degrees - this is one of the reasons I actually really dislike the OE tires - I actually haven't found any track / weather that I like them - they are no where near R6s in speed, R888s are way cheaper and as fast and work in good temperature range, PSS's once scrubbed are way better dailies and in my experience just as fast on track - but that's me.
11-09-2011, 02:07 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
After you do this, the tires are not 3-4 seconds slower per 2 minute lap in my experience - it is maybe 1 second difference than OE Cup+ tires (maybe less). But this is at Mosport in 75 degree weather - not on a short twistie track at 100 degrees - this is one of the reasons I actually really dislike the OE tires - I actually haven't found any track / weather that I like them - they are no where near R6s in speed, R888s are way cheaper and as fast and work in good temperature range, PSS's once scrubbed are way better dailies and in my experience just as fast on track - but that's me.
If they make 325 next year, I will mount a set on my RS and try them aggressively on our local track.
I don't mind 1 to 2 seconds off per lap, but will really appreciate its wet performance as it rains too much in Vancouver.
11-09-2011, 02:13 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
This is very good and positive feedback on PSS.
If they make 325 next year, I will mount a set on my RS and try them aggressively on our local track.
I don't mind 1 to 2 seconds off per lap, but will really appreciate its wet performance as it rains too much in Vancouver.
If they make 325 next year, I will mount a set on my RS and try them aggressively on our local track.
I don't mind 1 to 2 seconds off per lap, but will really appreciate its wet performance as it rains too much in Vancouver.
11-09-2011, 02:14 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
11-09-2011, 02:19 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
"Larry, if Im not mistaken, the warranty is void if they sense you tracked the PSS. I saw somewhere not long ago where they stated this. Hopefully I am wrong though."
Season finished and so were the MPSS's. Fronts corded on outside edges, rears showing substantial outside edge wear. Calabogie Motorsports Park is tough on fronts.
I did find out that there is no warranty for track use, even though I scoured the available warranty literature for mentions.
Season finished and so were the MPSS's. Fronts corded on outside edges, rears showing substantial outside edge wear. Calabogie Motorsports Park is tough on fronts.
I did find out that there is no warranty for track use, even though I scoured the available warranty literature for mentions.
I think you have to watch the hot pressures on the MPSS, I am struggling to understand why the shoulders wore so quickly after 5 track days, given the technology in the tyre and the compound on the outside shoulder I believe you should have got better mileage ... certainly exceeding that of MPSC or PS2.
11-09-2011, 02:20 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
11-09-2011, 02:24 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
2010 Porsche 911 GT3
Front chamber -2.1 0 toe
Rear chamber -1.9 Very min toe in (don't know the exact number)
New Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Cold tire pressure on track: Front 30, rear 31. Hot tire pressure on track: front 37, rear 39 psi
5 track days later:
2 days at Streets of Willow
2 days at Willow Springs Race Way
1 day at California autoclub speedway inner course
All 4 tires outer were flat where as the inner are still 80% remaining. One of the rear has corded outer. Prob due to weak walls. I have emailed Michelin tech dept to see what the explanations are. Very disappointed on the wear life. However, they performed quite well on the track both wet and dry.
Front chamber -2.1 0 toe
Rear chamber -1.9 Very min toe in (don't know the exact number)
New Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Cold tire pressure on track: Front 30, rear 31. Hot tire pressure on track: front 37, rear 39 psi
5 track days later:
2 days at Streets of Willow
2 days at Willow Springs Race Way
1 day at California autoclub speedway inner course
All 4 tires outer were flat where as the inner are still 80% remaining. One of the rear has corded outer. Prob due to weak walls. I have emailed Michelin tech dept to see what the explanations are. Very disappointed on the wear life. However, they performed quite well on the track both wet and dry.
11-09-2011, 05:24 PM
#40
2010 Porsche 911 GT3
Front chamber -2.1 0 toe
Rear chamber -1.9 Very min toe in (don't know the exact number)
New Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Cold tire pressure on track: Front 30, rear 31. Hot tire pressure on track: front 37, rear 39 psi
5 track days later:
2 days at Streets of Willow
2 days at Willow Springs Race Way
1 day at California autoclub speedway inner course
All 4 tires outer were flat where as the inner are still 80% remaining. One of the rear has corded outer. Prob due to weak walls. I have emailed Michelin tech dept to see what the explanations are. Very disappointed on the wear life. However, they performed quite well on the track both wet and dry.
Front chamber -2.1 0 toe
Rear chamber -1.9 Very min toe in (don't know the exact number)
New Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Cold tire pressure on track: Front 30, rear 31. Hot tire pressure on track: front 37, rear 39 psi
5 track days later:
2 days at Streets of Willow
2 days at Willow Springs Race Way
1 day at California autoclub speedway inner course
All 4 tires outer were flat where as the inner are still 80% remaining. One of the rear has corded outer. Prob due to weak walls. I have emailed Michelin tech dept to see what the explanations are. Very disappointed on the wear life. However, they performed quite well on the track both wet and dry.
Can you clarify your comments for me please - just want to make sure I understand:
1) All 4 tires outer were flat where as the inner are still 80% remaining
- are you saying that on all 4 tires, it was the outside of the tire that had all the wear - and the inside was basically new
2) One of the rear has corded outer
- you are saying at -1.9 camber you corded the outside of the tire and the inside edge had 80% tread left
With your setup (-2.1,-1.9), just to confirm, you are saying you basically ruined the outer edges of the all tires but the inner edges had 80% tread remaining.
My own setup (-2.2, -1.75) with the 245f 305r is that with running 33f hot and 36r hot that the tire wear was almost perfect at Mosport - to make it absolutely perfect I would say that -2.3, -1.85 as a guess would have nailed it in terms of wear and temps.
If I have interpreted what you have said correctly, then it seems that your driving style, local tracks, local temps and corning speed requires substantially higher camber to make the tires work - this is entirely possible - you might need a setup in the -2.7f, -2.4r range
You may also want to check your alignment to see if anything is out of wack.
11-09-2011, 08:25 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Doh ... I got it wrong ... not enough camber and/or too much hot pressure!
11-09-2011, 08:54 PM
#42
Too much hot pressure is generally associated with the over inflated middle section getting worn too quickly - not the outside edge.
The description of what happened to these tires doesn't quite make sense to me given the alignment - Unless we are talking about 11/10ths pushing the car and a driving style that really, really likes to slide the car - throw it into to a corner - and possibly with an under inflated tire on the first 2 laps it was rolling over and all the wear happened then - especially the rears that had -1.9 camber - if all the wear was outside edge with 80% tread left on the inside edge??
It sounds like some drifting on cold tires was happening - that's why I'm asking.
The description of what happened to these tires doesn't quite make sense to me given the alignment - Unless we are talking about 11/10ths pushing the car and a driving style that really, really likes to slide the car - throw it into to a corner - and possibly with an under inflated tire on the first 2 laps it was rolling over and all the wear happened then - especially the rears that had -1.9 camber - if all the wear was outside edge with 80% tread left on the inside edge??
It sounds like some drifting on cold tires was happening - that's why I'm asking.
11-09-2011, 09:31 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
The description of what happened to these tires doesn't quite make sense to me given the alignment - Unless we are talking about 11/10ths pushing the car and a driving style that really, really likes to slide the car - throw it into to a corner - and possibly with an under inflated tire on the first 2 laps it was rolling over and all the wear happened then - especially the rears that had -1.9 camber - if all the wear was outside edge with 80% tread left on the inside edge??
It sounds like some drifting on cold tires was happening - that's why I'm asking.
It sounds like some drifting on cold tires was happening - that's why I'm asking.
these tyres were bullet proof after a hard day lapping at the autodrome in Dubai, and not just on Carerra's but also on Lambos, R8, AMG, 458 etc ... with works drivers pushing them VERY hard ...
11-10-2011, 03:54 AM
#44
As I mentioned on an earlier post on these PSS tires - I didn't nearly like them as much on day 1 as on day 2 - sort of like R888s. On day 1, I was getting into ABS in some brake zones - which I wasn't expecting - on day 2 this was almost 100% better.
My 2 cents, try your hardest to scrub the tires in a parking lot before your first track day - light them up / slide them - get the release agent out.
After you do this, the tires are not 3-4 seconds slower per 2 minute lap in my experience - it is maybe 1 second difference than OE Cup+ tires (maybe less). But this is at Mosport in 75 degree weather - not on a short twistie track at 100 degrees - this is one of the reasons I actually really dislike the OE tires - I actually haven't found any track / weather that I like them - they are no where near R6s in speed, R888s are way cheaper and as fast and work in good temperature range, PSS's once scrubbed are way better dailies and in my experience just as fast on track - but that's me.
My 2 cents, try your hardest to scrub the tires in a parking lot before your first track day - light them up / slide them - get the release agent out.
After you do this, the tires are not 3-4 seconds slower per 2 minute lap in my experience - it is maybe 1 second difference than OE Cup+ tires (maybe less). But this is at Mosport in 75 degree weather - not on a short twistie track at 100 degrees - this is one of the reasons I actually really dislike the OE tires - I actually haven't found any track / weather that I like them - they are no where near R6s in speed, R888s are way cheaper and as fast and work in good temperature range, PSS's once scrubbed are way better dailies and in my experience just as fast on track - but that's me.
Corner entry, apex speeds, terminal velocity, all dramatically higher. 3-4s on a 2min lap may even be an understatement, I was 1-2psi too high in the rear...
11-10-2011, 06:37 AM
#45
Sorry, but no way does the PSS come near the PSC in track performance. I tracked my PSS three times. I have telemetry from the runs. I tracked the PSCs twice. Everything about them is better.
Corner entry, apex speeds, terminal velocity, all dramatically higher. 3-4s on a 2min lap may even be an understatement, I was 1-2psi too high in the rear...
Corner entry, apex speeds, terminal velocity, all dramatically higher. 3-4s on a 2min lap may even be an understatement, I was 1-2psi too high in the rear...
What exact MPSC are you comparing to - N0, N1, N2, sizes?
What does your data show?
Thanks
Paul