Le Mans prototypes weigh 2000lb
06-13-2011, 12:31 AM
#16
Had either of these Audi accidents happened in a '60s GT40 or the venerable Porsche 917, driver death would most likely occured as neither of the two early cars had any driver safety let alone "crumple zones". The Audi accident that occured as a result of the questionable Ferrari pass was horrific and if replayed as I did (10+ times) one can easily see any chassis/cockpit from the '60s or '70s would have completely disinegrated.
I have had the good fortune to drive the Martini 917 and several early GT40s at various vintage events in the 90s and I could feel both cars chassis flex under accelaration and cornering. In the 917, I could even see and feel the body, doors vibrating and flexing at speed on the banking at Daytona.
Loved it and didn't care, I was a young, single, invincible pro-driver and getting to driving a part of history ! ! !
NOW, as a father of five, I would not even think about getting into either of these cars on a track surrounded by a bunch of "weekend warriors" in their expensive toys.
Conversely, I would be much more inclined to do so in any of the Le Mans winning cars from the past 10 years (Audi, Peugeot) with far less concern !
I have had the good fortune to drive the Martini 917 and several early GT40s at various vintage events in the 90s and I could feel both cars chassis flex under accelaration and cornering. In the 917, I could even see and feel the body, doors vibrating and flexing at speed on the banking at Daytona.
Loved it and didn't care, I was a young, single, invincible pro-driver and getting to driving a part of history ! ! !
NOW, as a father of five, I would not even think about getting into either of these cars on a track surrounded by a bunch of "weekend warriors" in their expensive toys.
Conversely, I would be much more inclined to do so in any of the Le Mans winning cars from the past 10 years (Audi, Peugeot) with far less concern !
06-13-2011, 12:46 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Had either of these Audi accidents happened in a '60s GT40 or the venerable Porsche 917, driver death would most likely occured as neither of the two early cars had any driver safety let alone "crumple zones". The Audi accident that occured as a result of the questionable Ferrari pass was horrific and if replayed as I did (10+ times) one can easily see any chassis/cockpit from the '60s or '70s would have completely disinegrated.
I have had the good fortune to drive the Martini 917 and several early GT40s at various vintage events in the 90s and I could feel both cars chassis flex under accelaration and cornering. In the 917, I could even see and feel the body, doors vibrating and flexing at speed on the banking at Daytona.
Loved it and didn't care, I was a young, single, invincible pro-driver and getting to driving a part of history ! ! !
NOW, as a father of five, I would not even think about getting into either of these cars on a track surrounded by a bunch of "weekend warriors" in their expensive toys.
Conversely, I would be much more inclined to do so in any of the Le Mans winning cars from the past 10 years (Audi, Peugeot) with far less concern !
I have had the good fortune to drive the Martini 917 and several early GT40s at various vintage events in the 90s and I could feel both cars chassis flex under accelaration and cornering. In the 917, I could even see and feel the body, doors vibrating and flexing at speed on the banking at Daytona.
Loved it and didn't care, I was a young, single, invincible pro-driver and getting to driving a part of history ! ! !
NOW, as a father of five, I would not even think about getting into either of these cars on a track surrounded by a bunch of "weekend warriors" in their expensive toys.
Conversely, I would be much more inclined to do so in any of the Le Mans winning cars from the past 10 years (Audi, Peugeot) with far less concern !
06-13-2011, 01:17 AM
#18
Agreed and especially your last statement which includes not only this 'ultralight' car but the R15 or the R10. My point was that McNish's R15 would have bumped the Ferrari, bounced and continue. This R18 disintegrated on contact because the wheels/suspensions do not have a reasonable fender to protect them - they are as fragile as an F1 car. That, was my point all along. Of course well planned crumple zones and solid driver cocoons are key, but the R10 and the R15 had those and did not disintegrate on contact.
Seems that Audi & Joest have strayed from this winning philosophy (by choice or demand) and the ramifications showed in 2011!
06-13-2011, 04:59 AM
#20
McNish is a seasoned pro, but that was a stupid move with zero likelihood of a clean pass. If he didn't see the Ferrari (Rockenfeller?) he wasn't looking. But there was no way the Ferrari could be expected to anticipate (or see in his mirrors) the second Audi would try to take two positions into an apex. Bonehead move and I imagine McNish is kicking himself (and lucky to have the opportunity to do so.)
Allan McNish's Audi R18 collided with Anthony Beltoise's Ferrari 458 just past the Dunlop bridge.
Mike Rockenfeller's Audi R18 collided with Rob Kaufmann's Ferrari 458 at the Mulsanne kink.
06-13-2011, 09:00 AM
#21
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
McNish is a seasoned pro, but that was a stupid move with zero likelihood of a clean pass. If he didn't see the Ferrari (Rockenfeller?) he wasn't looking. But there was no way the Ferrari could be expected to anticipate (or see in his mirrors) the second Audi would try to take two positions into an apex. Bonehead move and I imagine McNish is kicking himself (and lucky to have the opportunity to do so.)
As for lightweight cars, if the Audi had a metal body (or solid material of some composition) the rear wheel would have been shielded, it would not have done the open-wheeler lift-off because it wouldn't have been able to contact the back of the Ferrari, so the two cars would have locked sides and done the usually dosey doe slow-down and off.
