Le Mans prototypes weigh 2000lb
06-11-2011, 10:31 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Le Mans prototypes weigh 2000lb
Both the the Audi R18 and the Peugeot weigh only 2000lb. Compare that to the 4000lb Ford GT40 of '67...
Notice that this light weight may come at a price... the cars seem pretty fragile, as seen by McNish and Rockenfeller incidents. The design is quite good from a driver safety POV, with the fragile light bits absorbing well the impact, but the car is trashed.
McNish Le Mans crash
Notice that this light weight may come at a price... the cars seem pretty fragile, as seen by McNish and Rockenfeller incidents. The design is quite good from a driver safety POV, with the fragile light bits absorbing well the impact, but the car is trashed.
McNish Le Mans crash
06-12-2011, 12:55 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
06-12-2011, 01:00 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
what's happened to Audi... were two very bad crashes.
even if the cars weighed 4K lbs they would be out
even if the cars weighed 4K lbs they would be out
Last edited by MarkD; 06-12-2011 at 01:23 AM. Reason: typo
06-12-2011, 01:18 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
06-12-2011, 01:33 AM
#6
Race Director
The point of the 'fragility' is to dissipate the kinetic energy rather than transfer said energy to the driver via a rigid structure. This is a reason why the driver mortality rate of modern race car crashes has dropped substantially compared to crashes of only a few decades ago.
06-12-2011, 01:39 AM
#7
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
The point of the 'fragility' is to dissipate the kinetic energy rather than transfer said energy to the driver via a rigid structure. This is a reason why the driver mortality rate of modern race car crashes has dropped substantially compared to crashes of only a few decades ago.
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06-12-2011, 01:50 AM
#8
Race Director
Had McNish and Rockenfeller been driving older cars they most likely would have remained more intact. Crumpled beyond belief and thoroughly undrivable but more intact. The drivers would also have likely suffered much more serious injuries as well.
06-12-2011, 10:52 AM
#10
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Crash any car into a wall at 100+ mph and the car will be destroyed. The difference here is the parts that were going to be inevitably destroyed broke away as they should, and the cockpit was intact. Do that with any other car, and the result may look better, but don't expect the cockpit to look as pristine as the Audis'.
There's no point in Audi trying to engineer a prototype that would stay intact after a 100+ mph impact, because the car would be totaled regardless, and it's easier to reach the driver as well if the parts break away.
There's no point in Audi trying to engineer a prototype that would stay intact after a 100+ mph impact, because the car would be totaled regardless, and it's easier to reach the driver as well if the parts break away.
06-12-2011, 11:21 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Agreed on improved safety for the driver, but certainly not for spectators.... wouldn't want a whole lot of those CF panels hitting race officials or spectators and as was highlighted in the first accident when the cameraman was being chased by a stray wheel. We were lucky not to have 20 spectators in hospital or dead after the first crash.
Maybe they need to rethink track safety with such fragile cars. In F1 they restrain wheels for this reason after the death of an official in Melbourne a few years ago...
Maybe they need to rethink track safety with such fragile cars. In F1 they restrain wheels for this reason after the death of an official in Melbourne a few years ago...
06-12-2011, 12:08 PM
#12
McNish is a seasoned pro, but that was a stupid move with zero likelihood of a clean pass. If he didn't see the Ferrari (Rockenfeller?) he wasn't looking. But there was no way the Ferrari could be expected to anticipate (or see in his mirrors) the second Audi would try to take two positions into an apex. Bonehead move and I imagine McNish is kicking himself (and lucky to have the opportunity to do so.)
As for lightweight cars, if the Audi had a metal body (or solid material of some composition) the rear wheel would have been shielded, it would not have done the open-wheeler lift-off because it wouldn't have been able to contact the back of the Ferrari, so the two cars would have locked sides and done the usually dosey doe slow-down and off.
There's always plenty of "maybe's" to go around, so maybe the Ferrari had previously yielded the line under these conditions, maybe there was already evidence the Ferrari driver knew the Audi was there, maybe the Audi ran out of aero/grip/brakes or any number of other circumstances. Racing.
As for design safety, the wheel carriers are already captive, but if a wheel completely self-destructs or destroys the tether, it can still escape. I think the chasing wheel was still complete with suspension arms, so the entire quarter of the car was in pieces -- I doubt the tether would do much good with those forces.
All that said, I'm pressed by the "survival cell" design of the Audi. I think that's the future of motorsports (it's already the required standard for offshore racers) and it's just a matter of time before street cars adopt this approach.
As for lightweight cars, if the Audi had a metal body (or solid material of some composition) the rear wheel would have been shielded, it would not have done the open-wheeler lift-off because it wouldn't have been able to contact the back of the Ferrari, so the two cars would have locked sides and done the usually dosey doe slow-down and off.
There's always plenty of "maybe's" to go around, so maybe the Ferrari had previously yielded the line under these conditions, maybe there was already evidence the Ferrari driver knew the Audi was there, maybe the Audi ran out of aero/grip/brakes or any number of other circumstances. Racing.
As for design safety, the wheel carriers are already captive, but if a wheel completely self-destructs or destroys the tether, it can still escape. I think the chasing wheel was still complete with suspension arms, so the entire quarter of the car was in pieces -- I doubt the tether would do much good with those forces.
All that said, I'm pressed by the "survival cell" design of the Audi. I think that's the future of motorsports (it's already the required standard for offshore racers) and it's just a matter of time before street cars adopt this approach.
06-12-2011, 09:29 PM
#13
06-12-2011, 10:05 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I was also surprised, but heard that on a David Despain interview of Carroll Shelby. Perhaps he was in error.
06-12-2011, 10:07 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
McNish is a seasoned pro, but that was a stupid move with zero likelihood of a clean pass. If he didn't see the Ferrari (Rockenfeller?) he wasn't looking. But there was no way the Ferrari could be expected to anticipate (or see in his mirrors) the second Audi would try to take two positions into an apex. Bonehead move and I imagine McNish is kicking himself (and lucky to have the opportunity to do so.)
As for lightweight cars, if the Audi had a metal body (or solid material of some composition) the rear wheel would have been shielded, it would not have done the open-wheeler lift-off because it wouldn't have been able to contact the back of the Ferrari, so the two cars would have locked sides and done the usually dosey doe slow-down and off.
There's always plenty of "maybe's" to go around, so maybe the Ferrari had previously yielded the line under these conditions, maybe there was already evidence the Ferrari driver knew the Audi was there, maybe the Audi ran out of aero/grip/brakes or any number of other circumstances. Racing.
As for design safety, the wheel carriers are already captive, but if a wheel completely self-destructs or destroys the tether, it can still escape. I think the chasing wheel was still complete with suspension arms, so the entire quarter of the car was in pieces -- I doubt the tether would do much good with those forces.
All that said, I'm pressed by the "survival cell" design of the Audi. I think that's the future of motorsports (it's already the required standard for offshore racers) and it's just a matter of time before street cars adopt this approach.
As for lightweight cars, if the Audi had a metal body (or solid material of some composition) the rear wheel would have been shielded, it would not have done the open-wheeler lift-off because it wouldn't have been able to contact the back of the Ferrari, so the two cars would have locked sides and done the usually dosey doe slow-down and off.
There's always plenty of "maybe's" to go around, so maybe the Ferrari had previously yielded the line under these conditions, maybe there was already evidence the Ferrari driver knew the Audi was there, maybe the Audi ran out of aero/grip/brakes or any number of other circumstances. Racing.
As for design safety, the wheel carriers are already captive, but if a wheel completely self-destructs or destroys the tether, it can still escape. I think the chasing wheel was still complete with suspension arms, so the entire quarter of the car was in pieces -- I doubt the tether would do much good with those forces.
All that said, I'm pressed by the "survival cell" design of the Audi. I think that's the future of motorsports (it's already the required standard for offshore racers) and it's just a matter of time before street cars adopt this approach.
