430 Scud pricing?
05-19-2011, 01:25 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Very interesting comparison of 2 excellent cars. I wonder which one is better to hold in the long run. My money will go for the 4.0 as I really think a 6 speed manual sport car will be a rare find in the future.
05-19-2011, 01:59 AM
#19
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I have to say this thread is quite funny given that I own one and there is a HUGE thread on this already under the 430 section of Fchat. You can read it without being a paying member so I would do it. As everyone has said: best pricing is on 2008 MY higher mileage cars for now followed up by sub 2k mileage 2009 MY's. I bought mine used, (500 miles!) and it was 30k below other cars at the time, yet thanks to the 458, i still took a 60k hit based on the current ask, which is not getting any deals done. It really is a fine track car, okay road car. I've converted mine into a full track model: full cage, Capristo exhaust,race keeper, fire system, schroth 6pt, forged rims, challenge pads etc.
She'll be making her debut at MMC in about another week.
She'll be making her debut at MMC in about another week.
I thought about doing the same.
05-19-2011, 12:11 PM
#20
we built it from scratch based off a design used in another scud project that the shop had done. The car should be sorted out by this weekend, hopefully have pix to share shortly thereafter.
05-19-2011, 01:25 PM
#21
I am not sure which will retain value better based on the used Scuderia pricing to new 4.0 pricing. However, I just think the Scuderia offers more for the money. You get carbon basically everywhere, about the same power and weight, with better sound and more rawness. Overall, I am not sure there are any better cars for the driving experience alone than the Scuderia. I've only sat in one and liked it much better than my RS. Maybe Rad can give his comments as he has owned both.
05-19-2011, 01:34 PM
#22
Keep in mind you're comparing operating costs and total cost of ownership over a given period of time. You'd have to define the period of ownership, type of driving and mileage to make a comparison. Just don't be in a Scuderia when the gearbox needs work for example. How about those ceramic rotors -- they're ridiculously expensive on the Porsche, I'm curious to know what they cost on a Scuderia ... maybe there's a ZR1 conversion? : )
Search back over posts here that bemoan failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the "set the alignment and go drive" proposition of an RS. Compare the cost of a full cage or a roll bar in a Scuderia vs. a 4.0. Even if the dollars overlap on initial capital outlay, the picture one year and say 20 track downs down the road is going to be a gut check for the Scuderia driver. Conversely, the 4.0 owner can put some miles on, track it, revert it to stock and then expect above the same depreciation curve as any 911.
I still like the appearance and the value of the Scuderia compared to the (growing on me) 458 Italia, but I don't think I can give up my penny-pinching 911 ways.
Search back over posts here that bemoan failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the "set the alignment and go drive" proposition of an RS. Compare the cost of a full cage or a roll bar in a Scuderia vs. a 4.0. Even if the dollars overlap on initial capital outlay, the picture one year and say 20 track downs down the road is going to be a gut check for the Scuderia driver. Conversely, the 4.0 owner can put some miles on, track it, revert it to stock and then expect above the same depreciation curve as any 911.
I still like the appearance and the value of the Scuderia compared to the (growing on me) 458 Italia, but I don't think I can give up my penny-pinching 911 ways.
05-19-2011, 09:29 PM
#23
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Keep in mind you're comparing operating costs and total cost of ownership over a given period of time. You'd have to define the period of ownership, type of driving and mileage to make a comparison. Just don't be in a Scuderia when the gearbox needs work for example. How about those ceramic rotors -- they're ridiculously expensive on the Porsche, I'm curious to know what they cost on a Scuderia ... maybe there's a ZR1 conversion? : )
Search back over posts here that bemoan failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the "set the alignment and go drive" proposition of an RS. Compare the cost of a full cage or a roll bar in a Scuderia vs. a 4.0. Even if the dollars overlap on initial capital outlay, the picture one year and say 20 track downs down the road is going to be a gut check for the Scuderia driver. Conversely, the 4.0 owner can put some miles on, track it, revert it to stock and then expect above the same depreciation curve as any 911.
I still like the appearance and the value of the Scuderia compared to the (growing on me) 458 Italia, but I don't think I can give up my penny-pinching 911 ways.
Search back over posts here that bemoan failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the "set the alignment and go drive" proposition of an RS. Compare the cost of a full cage or a roll bar in a Scuderia vs. a 4.0. Even if the dollars overlap on initial capital outlay, the picture one year and say 20 track downs down the road is going to be a gut check for the Scuderia driver. Conversely, the 4.0 owner can put some miles on, track it, revert it to stock and then expect above the same depreciation curve as any 911.
I still like the appearance and the value of the Scuderia compared to the (growing on me) 458 Italia, but I don't think I can give up my penny-pinching 911 ways.
carrera GT, i consider you to be a wealth of valuable and intelligent information, but i find myself struggling with your comparison above regarding "failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the 'set the alignment and go drive' proposition of an RS". i believe RAD has only done a simple alignment, sway bars and springs to his scuderia and been very, very successful vs the infinite number of dog bones/link/thrust arm bushing kit/bump steer kit front and rear inner A Arm bearing kits, etc. that most track-driving owners invest in to make GT's into street legal cup cars. from my experience, even a ferrari buyer is okay with the previous owner having done a proper alaignment on the car, and we all know springs and sways are easy to put back to stock. it is okay to have personal favorites, we all do, but may i ask where you have seen any of the aforementioned "failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track"?
05-20-2011, 12:13 AM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
- Scuderia is the cheapest maintenance car I have owned
- Ferrari parts are affordable and most of the time cheaper than Porsche parts if you know who to buy from
- my car with alignment, springs, sway bars blows away most cars at a racetrack. Only full blown race cars give me trouble. Even the mighty Viper ACR and highly modified 650+ Hp Z06 struggle with the pace of a well setup Scuderia
- No need for replacing suspension parts, everything bolts with monoballs straight to the chassis, no subframe here, double a-arms at all corners, the only better suspensions are in the Carrera GT, Aventador and Enzo.
- For $400k or less the Scuderia is the car. Beyond that it's Carrera GT or F40
- more than 2 years, 10,000 miles, multiple track days, multiple autocrosses, multiple drag races, canyon driving, Mexico roads, trailered for over 20,000 miles. The car is solid.
- Less weight, more power, better transmission, better brakes than a 4.0 RS, and it looks a lot better too.
- The e-diff is a trick, and it lasts. The new F458 Challenge now uses e-diff, what a confidence inspiring and predictable at the limits car it is with this diff.
- All nannies off make it so much fun.
- It can fit a 315 front tire and a 345 or bigger rear tire if you want without rubbing anywhere.
- I didn't like the sound of the V8 from day 1, it sounds great above 5,000 rpm, but uninspiring below that. I fixed it with new headers and new muffler a few days ago, less weight , more power, and the high pitch sound I was looking for. I always liked this car, now I like it more.
- Shifting lights on the steering wheel are fun
- 8,500 rpm (revs to 8,600 rpm sometimes) is fun
- No ice mode. My only brake failure was at Sebring back in January due to running the stock pads (Avoid them at the track) and they overheated beyond their range. I ran this past weekend on my track pads, lovely.
- Quickly using the paddle shifter skips gears on upshift/downshift, nice for emergency braking or required sudden acceleration
- It blows blue flames on the exhaust pipes bone stock. Fun
- So much storage space inside, it is a big car inside, gigantic trunk
- Comes with bluetooth, navigation, radio, cd player, ipod link at just 2.5 lbs
- The stripes are painted, not the vinyl some manufacturers do on their cars
- There is so much Carbon Fiber, Aluminum and Alcantara everywhere
- Best Ferrari value ever, reliable, pretty and decently fast, the only affordable Ferrari that can put the GT3 and GT3 RS to sleep.
- Ferrari parts are affordable and most of the time cheaper than Porsche parts if you know who to buy from
- my car with alignment, springs, sway bars blows away most cars at a racetrack. Only full blown race cars give me trouble. Even the mighty Viper ACR and highly modified 650+ Hp Z06 struggle with the pace of a well setup Scuderia
- No need for replacing suspension parts, everything bolts with monoballs straight to the chassis, no subframe here, double a-arms at all corners, the only better suspensions are in the Carrera GT, Aventador and Enzo.
- For $400k or less the Scuderia is the car. Beyond that it's Carrera GT or F40
- more than 2 years, 10,000 miles, multiple track days, multiple autocrosses, multiple drag races, canyon driving, Mexico roads, trailered for over 20,000 miles. The car is solid.
- Less weight, more power, better transmission, better brakes than a 4.0 RS, and it looks a lot better too.
- The e-diff is a trick, and it lasts. The new F458 Challenge now uses e-diff, what a confidence inspiring and predictable at the limits car it is with this diff.
- All nannies off make it so much fun.
- It can fit a 315 front tire and a 345 or bigger rear tire if you want without rubbing anywhere.
- I didn't like the sound of the V8 from day 1, it sounds great above 5,000 rpm, but uninspiring below that. I fixed it with new headers and new muffler a few days ago, less weight , more power, and the high pitch sound I was looking for. I always liked this car, now I like it more.
- Shifting lights on the steering wheel are fun
- 8,500 rpm (revs to 8,600 rpm sometimes) is fun
- No ice mode. My only brake failure was at Sebring back in January due to running the stock pads (Avoid them at the track) and they overheated beyond their range. I ran this past weekend on my track pads, lovely.
- Quickly using the paddle shifter skips gears on upshift/downshift, nice for emergency braking or required sudden acceleration
- It blows blue flames on the exhaust pipes bone stock. Fun
- So much storage space inside, it is a big car inside, gigantic trunk
- Comes with bluetooth, navigation, radio, cd player, ipod link at just 2.5 lbs
- The stripes are painted, not the vinyl some manufacturers do on their cars
- There is so much Carbon Fiber, Aluminum and Alcantara everywhere
- Best Ferrari value ever, reliable, pretty and decently fast, the only affordable Ferrari that can put the GT3 and GT3 RS to sleep.
05-20-2011, 01:01 AM
#25
Thank you Rad for the comments. There are quite a few relatively unused Scuderias on the market that can be bought for less than the 4.0RS. I agree with you and can't think of a better value for what it offers.
05-20-2011, 01:13 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
I've always felt that the porsche gt cars should remain below $150k base price. When you reach $200k, just spend a little more for the ferrari, be it a new 458 or scud.
the gt2rs is the biggest joke, parts bin exercise from porsche. the 4.0rs is a very nice car, but not for $200k
the gt2rs is the biggest joke, parts bin exercise from porsche. the 4.0rs is a very nice car, but not for $200k
05-20-2011, 01:42 AM
#28
carrera GT, i consider you to be a wealth of valuable and intelligent information, but i find myself struggling with your comparison above regarding "failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track versus the 'set the alignment and go drive' proposition of an RS". i believe RAD has only done a simple alignment, sway bars and springs to his scuderia and been very, very successful vs the infinite number of dog bones/link/thrust arm bushing kit/bump steer kit front and rear inner A Arm bearing kits, etc. that most track-driving owners invest in to make GT's into street legal cup cars. from my experience, even a ferrari buyer is okay with the previous owner having done a proper alaignment on the car, and we all know springs and sways are easy to put back to stock. it is okay to have personal favorites, we all do, but may i ask where you have seen any of the aforementioned "failed high dollar projects to get a Scuderia to handle well on the track"?
I compare the 4.0 and Scuderia in terms of the project I'd undertake on taking a track-oriented car to the track. What's it cost to bolt a four point roll bar into a Scuderia? What's the resale value of a Scuderia after covering say 8 or 12K miles and ample track time versus a 4.0?
I'm still tempted by the Scuderia -- despite advice to find a less expensive way to scratch my "F" itch. Somewhat ironically, if it were a manual box and conventional diff, I'd find it irresistible. But I find no joy in pushing the loud pedal and letting the car do the driving -- great for winning races, but not my cup of meat.
Anyway, I don't mean to tarnish my perfect reputation for knowledge here on Rennlist. <cough> So I'll try to back pedal a bit and say that I'm really not trying to draw the two cars as such vastly different costs -- I see the 911 as far less expensive all round, but to bring costs of a Ferrari and a Porsche within shouting distance, you have to pick a $100K depreciated, years old F car that's fallen out of favor, and a brand new, most expensive ever (naturally aspirated) 911 that's commanding full msrp.
In some ways, it's probably fair to compare the Scuderia with the Carrera GT -- these are cars that one could afford to buy and drive, but not track in earnest. Not if you really account for the risk and real operating costs -- not on a GT3 RS budget. In my humble. YMMV.
05-20-2011, 09:01 AM
#29
Nordschleife Master
- Scuderia is the cheapest maintenance car I have owned
- Ferrari parts are affordable and most of the time cheaper than Porsche parts if you know who to buy from
- my car with alignment, springs, sway bars blows away most cars at a racetrack. Only full blown race cars give me trouble. Even the mighty Viper ACR and highly modified 650+ Hp Z06 struggle with the pace of a well setup Scuderia
- No need for replacing suspension parts, everything bolts with monoballs straight to the chassis, no subframe here, double a-arms at all corners, the only better suspensions are in the Carrera GT, Aventador and Enzo.
- For $400k or less the Scuderia is the car. Beyond that it's Carrera GT or F40
- more than 2 years, 10,000 miles, multiple track days, multiple autocrosses, multiple drag races, canyon driving, Mexico roads, trailered for over 20,000 miles. The car is solid.
- Less weight, more power, better transmission, better brakes than a 4.0 RS, and it looks a lot better too.
- The e-diff is a trick, and it lasts. The new F458 Challenge now uses e-diff, what a confidence inspiring and predictable at the limits car it is with this diff.
- All nannies off make it so much fun.
- It can fit a 315 front tire and a 345 or bigger rear tire if you want without rubbing anywhere.
- I didn't like the sound of the V8 from day 1, it sounds great above 5,000 rpm, but uninspiring below that. I fixed it with new headers and new muffler a few days ago, less weight , more power, and the high pitch sound I was looking for. I always liked this car, now I like it more.
- Shifting lights on the steering wheel are fun
- 8,500 rpm (revs to 8,600 rpm sometimes) is fun
- No ice mode. My only brake failure was at Sebring back in January due to running the stock pads (Avoid them at the track) and they overheated beyond their range. I ran this past weekend on my track pads, lovely.
- Quickly using the paddle shifter skips gears on upshift/downshift, nice for emergency braking or required sudden acceleration
- It blows blue flames on the exhaust pipes bone stock. Fun
- So much storage space inside, it is a big car inside, gigantic trunk
- Comes with bluetooth, navigation, radio, cd player, ipod link at just 2.5 lbs
- The stripes are painted, not the vinyl some manufacturers do on their cars
- There is so much Carbon Fiber, Aluminum and Alcantara everywhere
- Best Ferrari value ever, reliable, pretty and decently fast, the only affordable Ferrari that can put the GT3 and GT3 RS to sleep.
- Ferrari parts are affordable and most of the time cheaper than Porsche parts if you know who to buy from
- my car with alignment, springs, sway bars blows away most cars at a racetrack. Only full blown race cars give me trouble. Even the mighty Viper ACR and highly modified 650+ Hp Z06 struggle with the pace of a well setup Scuderia
- No need for replacing suspension parts, everything bolts with monoballs straight to the chassis, no subframe here, double a-arms at all corners, the only better suspensions are in the Carrera GT, Aventador and Enzo.
- For $400k or less the Scuderia is the car. Beyond that it's Carrera GT or F40
- more than 2 years, 10,000 miles, multiple track days, multiple autocrosses, multiple drag races, canyon driving, Mexico roads, trailered for over 20,000 miles. The car is solid.
- Less weight, more power, better transmission, better brakes than a 4.0 RS, and it looks a lot better too.
- The e-diff is a trick, and it lasts. The new F458 Challenge now uses e-diff, what a confidence inspiring and predictable at the limits car it is with this diff.
- All nannies off make it so much fun.
- It can fit a 315 front tire and a 345 or bigger rear tire if you want without rubbing anywhere.
- I didn't like the sound of the V8 from day 1, it sounds great above 5,000 rpm, but uninspiring below that. I fixed it with new headers and new muffler a few days ago, less weight , more power, and the high pitch sound I was looking for. I always liked this car, now I like it more.
- Shifting lights on the steering wheel are fun
- 8,500 rpm (revs to 8,600 rpm sometimes) is fun
- No ice mode. My only brake failure was at Sebring back in January due to running the stock pads (Avoid them at the track) and they overheated beyond their range. I ran this past weekend on my track pads, lovely.
- Quickly using the paddle shifter skips gears on upshift/downshift, nice for emergency braking or required sudden acceleration
- It blows blue flames on the exhaust pipes bone stock. Fun
- So much storage space inside, it is a big car inside, gigantic trunk
- Comes with bluetooth, navigation, radio, cd player, ipod link at just 2.5 lbs
- The stripes are painted, not the vinyl some manufacturers do on their cars
- There is so much Carbon Fiber, Aluminum and Alcantara everywhere
- Best Ferrari value ever, reliable, pretty and decently fast, the only affordable Ferrari that can put the GT3 and GT3 RS to sleep.
If I had the money I woudl have a SCUD, the car is awesome
