MPSC: "I'm not dead yet" ...
05-02-2011, 04:11 PM
#16
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I know the R888 is the Offical Hated Tire of Rennlist 
but I've had success with them and the much Rennlist loved RA1...but no more RA1's from Toyo. Some have said the Bridgestone RE11 is as good or better than the Toyo R888 and the RE11 is not a R compound either.
MPSC does not come in 18" for my car like the Toyo's do but lately it seems like more and more high perf tires are coming in 19" instead of 18". Seems like the R888 is the only 18" R- Comp tire with tread I can run on the street and track. No one else makes 18 R Comps in my sizes anymore.
I've thought about trying 19's for the track but have always been told with out a doubt that 18's are better for the track.
I ran at Sebring during one of our PCA DE's with a lead instructor and racer and we both have the same cars right down to the same mufflers...both 09 997 S w/PDK. We had this all planned out to go out together. He is a experienced racer...I'm just a DE guy. He was on 19" lightweight Champion wheels and 19" stock sized MPSC. I was on 18" CCW with R888. He could not hang with me in the corners and the back part of Sebring. I was follwoing him and his car was lose all over the place. I stayed right with him and he gave me a point by and I put a good few seconds on him. Cars are the same, his skills have to be better than mine.....was it the tires or 18 vs 19 or??????
but I've had success with them and the much Rennlist loved RA1...but no more RA1's from Toyo. Some have said the Bridgestone RE11 is as good or better than the Toyo R888 and the RE11 is not a R compound either.MPSC does not come in 18" for my car like the Toyo's do but lately it seems like more and more high perf tires are coming in 19" instead of 18". Seems like the R888 is the only 18" R- Comp tire with tread I can run on the street and track. No one else makes 18 R Comps in my sizes anymore.
I've thought about trying 19's for the track but have always been told with out a doubt that 18's are better for the track.
I ran at Sebring during one of our PCA DE's with a lead instructor and racer and we both have the same cars right down to the same mufflers...both 09 997 S w/PDK. We had this all planned out to go out together. He is a experienced racer...I'm just a DE guy. He was on 19" lightweight Champion wheels and 19" stock sized MPSC. I was on 18" CCW with R888. He could not hang with me in the corners and the back part of Sebring. I was follwoing him and his car was lose all over the place. I stayed right with him and he gave me a point by and I put a good few seconds on him. Cars are the same, his skills have to be better than mine.....was it the tires or 18 vs 19 or??????
05-02-2011, 04:26 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think Fred runs 18"s ....
is it my imagination or is this car also running 18" (centerlock) rims? 
05-02-2011, 04:32 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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MPSC N1 tire may not be a true R-compound but I found it to be pretty good last weekend. Plenty of grip there. How they are in the rain is a different story.
05-02-2011, 04:33 PM
#20
05-02-2011, 04:39 PM
#21
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Pretty ballsy move mate! Glad you r still here typing. : )
I haven't tried to mix tires yet but no matter what, I will refuse to move to 19s. At the end of the day we might get back to the days of used slicks that teams were throwing away.
05-02-2011, 05:45 PM
#22
Race Director
Actually I'd be game to do a article like this for Rennlist and put the work into it if a manufacture would provide some forged 19" wheels and Michelin the MPSC and Super Sports and Bridgestone the RE11's and Toyo the R888's.
05-03-2011, 12:15 AM
#23
After four track days on the OE MPSC on the GT2RS I must say I have been impressed and very happy with them. Wearing very evenly and very grippy. A fine compromise street/track tire provided you keep the hot PSI 32-33 when tracking!
No need for crazy camber either, they work just fine with stock settings (which also preserves your stability under braking).
No need for crazy camber either, they work just fine with stock settings (which also preserves your stability under braking).
05-03-2011, 12:47 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
After four track days on the OE MPSC on the GT2RS I must say I have been impressed and very happy with them. Wearing very evenly and very grippy. A fine compromise street/track tire provided you keep the hot PSI 32-33 when tracking!
No need for crazy camber either, they work just fine with stock settings (which also preserves your stability under braking).
No need for crazy camber either, they work just fine with stock settings (which also preserves your stability under braking).
05-03-2011, 12:08 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
for what it matters RE11 is a good rain tire may be (still conti DW is claimed now to take a palm for this) but I never saw a car at AX to go faster in a sweeper on RE11 tires than on R888. Guys on RE11 usually drift like crazy and it is fun but is hardly faster.
Ps. Kumho v710 still exists. R888 is also not half as bad as people speak of it. NT01 still exists too, but it is not an AX tire so it is no go for me but you can try it too.
05-03-2011, 06:08 PM
#26
Race Director
I agree....Toyo R888 is not as bad as people on this forum claim it too be. I'm always looking for options though just in case R888 goes away like the RA1 did.
I spoke with a Toyo rep about this and he claims both the RA1 and R888 use the same rubber compound...known as GG. He said the R888 does not dissipate heat as fast as the smaller tread blocks on the RA1. Also the R888 has better turn is feel and turns in faster than the RA1 because it has a stiffer side wall and the larger tread blocks do not move around like the RA1. I find the R888 does feel better in turn in than RA1. He also said shaved R888 will feel better, be faster and last as long as shaved RA1.
I spoke with a Toyo rep about this and he claims both the RA1 and R888 use the same rubber compound...known as GG. He said the R888 does not dissipate heat as fast as the smaller tread blocks on the RA1. Also the R888 has better turn is feel and turns in faster than the RA1 because it has a stiffer side wall and the larger tread blocks do not move around like the RA1. I find the R888 does feel better in turn in than RA1. He also said shaved R888 will feel better, be faster and last as long as shaved RA1.
05-03-2011, 06:14 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I agree....Toyo R888 is not as bad as people on this forum claim it too be.
I spoke with a Toyo rep about this and he claims both the RA1 and R888 use the same rubber compound...known as GG. He said the R888 does not dissipate heat as fast as the smaller tread blocks on the RA1. Also the R888 has better turn is feel and turns in faster than the RA1 because it has a stiffer side wall and the larger tread blocks do not move around like the RA1. I find the R888 does feel better in turn in than RA1. He also said shaved R888 will feel better, be faster and last as long as shaved RA1.
I agree compared to UNSHAVED RA1's. If shaved RA1 is fine. Both overheat, but RA1 is drivable when almost corded. R888 will kill you all of a sudden long before cords show.
Glad we finally found something to disagree on
05-03-2011, 07:58 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
I don't and yes it is that bad... a friendly disagreegure ;-)
HHHHMMMMM.......
I agree compared to UNSHAVED RA1's. If shaved RA1 is fine. Both overheat, but RA1 is drivable when almost corded. R888 will kill you all of a sudden long before cords show.
Glad we finally found something to disagree on
HHHHMMMMM.......
I agree compared to UNSHAVED RA1's. If shaved RA1 is fine. Both overheat, but RA1 is drivable when almost corded. R888 will kill you all of a sudden long before cords show.
Glad we finally found something to disagree on
Buy a set shave them and try it......wont riskmy car with that POS tire
05-03-2011, 09:03 PM
#29
Racer
The rubber used to manufacture the casing of the R888 is a very different compound from the rubber used for the thread of the tire. When you reach the casing rubber, you will have almost no grip and slide everywhere, unlike NT01s or RA1s, which basically become like slicks when the thread is worn away. I'm no tire engineer, but if you look at these pair of 305-30-19 R888s used on a GT3, you can see some type longitudinal mold pattern in the rubber as it wears down which looks something like bonding ribs between the casing and the thread. It looks like there's still thread, and it's just a bit past the wear bars, but really, there's no grip. You think you bought 6/32s of thread, but really are probably only getting 3 or 4/32s. If running 2* or more rear camber, and depending on how much straight line or street driving you do, you'll wear away the inner 1" of the thread pretty quick and slide around on that too, not giving the tire a chance to stand up and grip when cornering. In a ~80 second autocross lap, the difference between these and a proper set of tires, these were over 10 seconds slower, back end drifting, shuffle steering in opposite lock around turns.
Last edited by Steve W; 05-04-2011 at 04:24 AM. Reason: pic
05-03-2011, 09:06 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
The rubber used to manufacture the casing of the R888 is a very different compound from the rubber used for the thread of the tire. When you reach the casing rubber, you will have almost no grip and slide everywhere, unlike NT01s or RA1s, which basically become like slicks when the thread is worn away. I'm no tire engineer, but if you look at these pair of 305-30-19 R888s used on a GT3, you can see some type longitudinal mold pattern in the rubber as it wears down which looks something like bonding ribs between the casing and the thread. It looks like there's still thread, and it's just a bit past the wear bars, but really, there's no grip. You think you bought 6/32s of thread, but really are probably only getting 3 or 4/32s. If running 2* or more rear camber, and depending on how much straight line or street driving you do, you'll wear away the inner 1" of the thread pretty quick and slide around on that too, not giving the tire a chance to stand up and grip when cornering. In a ~80 second autocross lap, the difference between these and a proper set of tires, these were over 10 seconds slower, back end drifting, shuffle steering in opposite lock around turns.
R888 is junk