Porsches' Exploding Batteries - be Warned!
04-06-2011, 01:34 AM
#46
Nordschleife Master
Replacing the OEM battery with a "sealed, maintenance free" type is asking for more problems.
That's because the charging profile is different for the flooded calcium/calcium type that is supplied as OEM vs. VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which is what the Optima and "sealed, maintenance free" batteries are. VRLA batteries are either AGM (absorbed glass mat) or GEL (immobilized electrolyte). The Optima battery is an AGM type.
The alternator is charging the battery through a regulator that is profiled for the OEM battery. Typically, if you substitute anything else, it will be "overcharged" because VRLA types require a lower voltage cut off at end of charge. Consult the manufacturer for recommended alternatives first.
One can complicate matters even further by adding a "Battery Maintainer" to a VRLA battery, and you risk thermal run away, and more damage due to overcharge and potential premature dry out. No warranty here.......
There really is no reason to use the "battery maintainer" unless your car is stationary for more than 6 months or so, as the ancillary loads and lower temperate climates will cause a combination of self-discharge (which is ordinary in lead acid chemistry) and normal discharge over time because of the parasitic loads. Then a boost charge would be requried, noting the need to ventilate the area well to remove the risk of Hydrogen gas collection and ultimate ignition if spark present.
Best practice according to battery manufacturers would be to disconnect the battery during lengthy times of non-operation. I'm sure this info is noted somewhere in the owner's manual.
Battery failures are quite common when the system integration is compromised in some way other than the intended design purpose, like perhaps it was in this original poster's case.
That's because the charging profile is different for the flooded calcium/calcium type that is supplied as OEM vs. VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which is what the Optima and "sealed, maintenance free" batteries are. VRLA batteries are either AGM (absorbed glass mat) or GEL (immobilized electrolyte). The Optima battery is an AGM type.
The alternator is charging the battery through a regulator that is profiled for the OEM battery. Typically, if you substitute anything else, it will be "overcharged" because VRLA types require a lower voltage cut off at end of charge. Consult the manufacturer for recommended alternatives first.
One can complicate matters even further by adding a "Battery Maintainer" to a VRLA battery, and you risk thermal run away, and more damage due to overcharge and potential premature dry out. No warranty here.......
There really is no reason to use the "battery maintainer" unless your car is stationary for more than 6 months or so, as the ancillary loads and lower temperate climates will cause a combination of self-discharge (which is ordinary in lead acid chemistry) and normal discharge over time because of the parasitic loads. Then a boost charge would be requried, noting the need to ventilate the area well to remove the risk of Hydrogen gas collection and ultimate ignition if spark present.
Best practice according to battery manufacturers would be to disconnect the battery during lengthy times of non-operation. I'm sure this info is noted somewhere in the owner's manual.
Battery failures are quite common when the system integration is compromised in some way other than the intended design purpose, like perhaps it was in this original poster's case.
04-06-2011, 01:47 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Best for OP’s to research and qualify at all the potential cause and effects of these types of failures (not just battery related) before they quickly bash the OEM brand that we have invested in. Porsche is truly an exceptional experience when used within designed parameters.
04-06-2011, 01:56 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
996FLT6: Contact Optima for their feedback and recommendation. Prior to that, research and determine the exact manufacturer of the "Battery Maintainer" and what charge algorithm they use. Get the info from Porsche or find it on the placard of the unit if available. Without this info, Optima cannot give you an answer. They key is the charge profile and algorithm and what battery chemistry it supports. One of the advantages of AGM design (Optima) is low self discharge characteristics, so no battery maintainer requried! Disadvantages of AGM vs. flooded is much higher procurement cost, more specialized charging parameters, and shorter cycle life.
04-06-2011, 02:01 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
what about the Lithium Ion battery? Do you mean the LiOn battery will not charge properly also? Shouldn't there be some type of mechanism/cpu to allow for different types of batteries?
04-06-2011, 02:05 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Lithium Ion has a completely different charge algorithm than lead-acid. It is important to find out what charge algorithms the "Battery Maintainer" supports and how effetively it does that. Contact Porsche customer support.
04-06-2011, 02:33 AM
#52
Nordschleife Master
PAG's LiIon battery has its own regulator and charging circuit built-in. The battery is small though and it has capacity limitations as well as total life (charging cycles) limitations. It is very expensive too.
04-06-2011, 03:53 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
That way you put a runner lead between one pole of the circuit breaker and the battery and attach the car's positive lead to the other. Obviously you would get on that has a huge amp rating (i.e 200amps so that it would never trip unless the car suffered a huge short circuit.
They have a release button on them that instantly disconnects power when pressed. Thus, you'd pop the bonnet, remove the cover, press and done! To reconnect, simply reset the breaker and done. I used to isolate amps and stiffening caps in this manner many moons ago when I had a huge audio set up...
04-06-2011, 07:58 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Coming to this thread and whining about Porsche screwing everyone isn't solving the problems is it?
I think everyone would be happier if Porsche owned up to the problem, but since they aren't, DOT forcing a recall would at least make them think twice about ignoring their short comings while rectifying current problem areas.
I think everyone would be happier if Porsche owned up to the problem, but since they aren't, DOT forcing a recall would at least make them think twice about ignoring their short comings while rectifying current problem areas.
04-06-2011, 08:31 AM
#55
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If there is a real issue here that Porsche is refusing to address then government intervention might be more expedient than lawsuits. Those take a long time, often result in simple payoffs to plaintifs without fixes to real issues and in the meantime a few houses can burn down or worse.
Or it could be that the only thing necessary is better owner education. I would find an ugly sticker in the frunk area pointing out battery procedures much more useful that the stupid airbag sticker in the interior.
Or it could be that the only thing necessary is better owner education. I would find an ugly sticker in the frunk area pointing out battery procedures much more useful that the stupid airbag sticker in the interior.
04-06-2011, 11:10 AM
#56
If the battery had simply died, which is supposed to happen, I would agree that PCNA is not responsible and I would not be upset or posting anything!
If Porsche batteries are supposed to explode (even though a small percentage of them) at the end of life; then I would say PCNA needs to look into it and take responsibility. My other cars go through the same procedure with battery tender and everything; none of them have had exploding batteries!
If Porsche batteries are supposed to explode (even though a small percentage of them) at the end of life; then I would say PCNA needs to look into it and take responsibility. My other cars go through the same procedure with battery tender and everything; none of them have had exploding batteries!
04-06-2011, 11:47 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
They have a release button on them that instantly disconnects power when pressed. Thus, you'd pop the bonnet, remove the cover, press and done! To reconnect, simply reset the breaker and done. I used to isolate amps and stiffening caps in this manner many moons ago when I had a huge audio set up...
Regarding the above method of release button or simply disconnecting the battery, I guess we have to make sure that we don't close the hood fully afterwards, as there will be no power to open it again. I fully agree that there is a major design flaw here.
04-06-2011, 04:40 PM
#58
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Wow - terrible story. Even worse than mine when I made a mistake hooking up a battery on my M3 and my wrench got melted onto it. I'm glad you and your family weren't harmed.
BFord makes some very valid points. I know guys in other cars like M3s run these types of drycell batteries. Would they be susceptible to the same issues?
http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey...FcW5KgodoEztsA
BFord makes some very valid points. I know guys in other cars like M3s run these types of drycell batteries. Would they be susceptible to the same issues?
http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey...FcW5KgodoEztsA
04-06-2011, 05:04 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
Sounds like its a battery maintainer problem.
I think you should have probably opened the hood, unscrew the battery caps and see if the water is at the mark or not, if not add water. Ensure the breather tube is connected, start the car and then screw the caps back on and close the hood.
I think you should have probably opened the hood, unscrew the battery caps and see if the water is at the mark or not, if not add water. Ensure the breather tube is connected, start the car and then screw the caps back on and close the hood.
04-06-2011, 05:29 PM
#60
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Replacing the OEM battery with a "sealed, maintenance free" type is asking for more problems.
That's because the charging profile is different for the flooded calcium/calcium type that is supplied as OEM vs. VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which is what the Optima and "sealed, maintenance free" batteries are. VRLA batteries are either AGM (absorbed glass mat) or GEL (immobilized electrolyte). The Optima battery is an AGM type.
The alternator is charging the battery through a regulator that is profiled for the OEM battery. Typically, if you substitute anything else, it will be "overcharged" because VRLA types require a lower voltage cut off at end of charge. Consult the manufacturer for recommended alternatives first.
One can complicate matters even further by adding a "Battery Maintainer" to a VRLA battery, and you risk thermal run away, and more damage due to overcharge and potential premature dry out. No warranty here.......
There really is no reason to use the "battery maintainer" unless your car is stationary for more than 6 months or so, as the ancillary loads and lower temperate climates will cause a combination of self-discharge (which is ordinary in lead acid chemistry) and normal discharge over time because of the parasitic loads. Then a boost charge would be requried, noting the need to ventilate the area well to remove the risk of Hydrogen gas collection and ultimate ignition if spark present.
Best practice according to battery manufacturers would be to disconnect the battery during lengthy times of non-operation. I'm sure this info is noted somewhere in the owner's manual.
Battery failures are quite common when the system integration is compromised in some way other than the intended design purpose, like perhaps it was in this original poster's case.
That's because the charging profile is different for the flooded calcium/calcium type that is supplied as OEM vs. VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which is what the Optima and "sealed, maintenance free" batteries are. VRLA batteries are either AGM (absorbed glass mat) or GEL (immobilized electrolyte). The Optima battery is an AGM type.
The alternator is charging the battery through a regulator that is profiled for the OEM battery. Typically, if you substitute anything else, it will be "overcharged" because VRLA types require a lower voltage cut off at end of charge. Consult the manufacturer for recommended alternatives first.
One can complicate matters even further by adding a "Battery Maintainer" to a VRLA battery, and you risk thermal run away, and more damage due to overcharge and potential premature dry out. No warranty here.......
There really is no reason to use the "battery maintainer" unless your car is stationary for more than 6 months or so, as the ancillary loads and lower temperate climates will cause a combination of self-discharge (which is ordinary in lead acid chemistry) and normal discharge over time because of the parasitic loads. Then a boost charge would be requried, noting the need to ventilate the area well to remove the risk of Hydrogen gas collection and ultimate ignition if spark present.
Best practice according to battery manufacturers would be to disconnect the battery during lengthy times of non-operation. I'm sure this info is noted somewhere in the owner's manual.
Battery failures are quite common when the system integration is compromised in some way other than the intended design purpose, like perhaps it was in this original poster's case.
Had a Bosch S6 closed type with AGM , and successfully used the Porsche charger/maintainer as the instructions didn't mention that a different charger was needed.
I have now a Li-ion battery and according to the manufacturer you can charge it with any standard 12V lead-acid charger and you can also leave the battery on a trickle charger. I did and everything works perfectly.
BTW Here is a pdf from Bosch about normal lead acid batteries that is very informative.
http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang...roch_Final.pdf
I think Bosch bought Optima..