Does GT2RS Inventory at Dealers make it a lesser car?
03-14-2011, 03:52 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
10-17 probably means a nice discount with some negotiation, 9-10% room, means 25k off the top? jeez.
03-14-2011, 04:50 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Simply put: the 2RS is marketed (and priced) as a collector's item. But it ain't appealing to collectors.
Cars will always come up with better handling and higher bhp/$ ratio over time. IMO it's the styling--the emotional connection--that sets apart the true "collector's item" from the laundry list of "great" cars. What's another 30, 60 or even a 100bhps in another 10 years when the supercars at that point may boast well north of 1,000 horses? Same goes for ring time or whatever benchmark manufacturers choose to quantify handling. Whatever that benchmark, it's bound to be broken by a successor product. What holds value over time is that ducktail, that flatnose or that hump in the back, something for people to ooh and aah over, 10, 20, 30 years from now.
For the reasons above I think the 2RS is mispriced, albeit a mispriced great. Numbers don't lie--it just ain't clearing the inventory the same way that the CGT or even the Speedsters did (FWIW I think the Speedster's a much better economic proposition).
Don't get me wrong, I think the world of the 2RS and it's enviable that anyone could cough up that much dough for a track car. It's just that there may not enough people with the requisite brand loyalty and wherewithal to justify a production run of 500. I hazard to say that we'd be having a very different conversation today had PAG stopped the run at say 99 cars.
Cars will always come up with better handling and higher bhp/$ ratio over time. IMO it's the styling--the emotional connection--that sets apart the true "collector's item" from the laundry list of "great" cars. What's another 30, 60 or even a 100bhps in another 10 years when the supercars at that point may boast well north of 1,000 horses? Same goes for ring time or whatever benchmark manufacturers choose to quantify handling. Whatever that benchmark, it's bound to be broken by a successor product. What holds value over time is that ducktail, that flatnose or that hump in the back, something for people to ooh and aah over, 10, 20, 30 years from now.
For the reasons above I think the 2RS is mispriced, albeit a mispriced great. Numbers don't lie--it just ain't clearing the inventory the same way that the CGT or even the Speedsters did (FWIW I think the Speedster's a much better economic proposition).
Don't get me wrong, I think the world of the 2RS and it's enviable that anyone could cough up that much dough for a track car. It's just that there may not enough people with the requisite brand loyalty and wherewithal to justify a production run of 500. I hazard to say that we'd be having a very different conversation today had PAG stopped the run at say 99 cars.
03-14-2011, 02:02 PM
#19
I think here in lies the problem,
1) its a track car, but at over $245k there aren't many interested in a expensive track car.
2) Those that can afford a $250k track car look for something more exotic, if the GT2 RS was shaped like the new Carrera GT ,with all else being identical, it would sell like a hotcake
3) It doesn't sound exotic, it could make 50 less HP but if it sounded like a Concord on takeoff everyone would buy it. Let's be honest when we say that one of huge factors the Carrera GT is so desired/purchased is because of its sound.
1) its a track car, but at over $245k there aren't many interested in a expensive track car.
2) Those that can afford a $250k track car look for something more exotic, if the GT2 RS was shaped like the new Carrera GT ,with all else being identical, it would sell like a hotcake
3) It doesn't sound exotic, it could make 50 less HP but if it sounded like a Concord on takeoff everyone would buy it. Let's be honest when we say that one of huge factors the Carrera GT is so desired/purchased is because of its sound.
1. I wasn't. Until I tracked it! Oh what have I done...
2. Can afford a CarreraGT but have never wanted to buy one. Personally I find the 2RS to be more esthetically pleasing than CarreraGT. And I dislike CGT cockpit.
3. A stock GT2RS won't pass sound at Laguna Seca. I received the meatballs all day to prove it. It is not quiet (97+db). Is a CarreraGT sound wonderful? Yes indeed. Does the GT2RS sound great? Yes indeed. On my track days last week, several comments were made to me that the 2RS sound was second only to the 458 Challenge car running those days. That is a favorable real-life observation
The2RS needs to be experieced live and in person to appreciate exactly what it has to offer. Not trying to be defensive or argumentative, just making differing observations.
Having put both track and road miles on my 2RS I am totally digging it and have zero regrets of purchase. The delivery experience at Dana Point/El Toro is a memory I will remember for a very long time.
Is it a very expensive car? Yes. If you can afford one and you love to drive, should you buy one today? Without a doubt.
Also- Keep in mind: 458 and McLaren will be built until the market is glutted and vomits from excess. There will only ever be 500 GT2RS's (133 in US). As you all know, scarcity is a primary determinant of value.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxbcNoM_oss
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I'll add: All Porsches will initially depreciate. All of the above 997 variants share platforms with $50k Boxsters. IMO, Porsche watched the 997GT3RS 3.6 trade at nearly $200k right before the recession, wanted in on the action, and created these 'collectible' models as pure profit centers. That, IMO, does not a 'collectible' make.
03-14-2011, 05:23 PM
#23
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I just stopped by Beverly Hills Porsche. The silver 2RS had a sold sign on it. Was talking to Eric and he said Porsche could have done better by limiting the number of cars manufactured. These cars should have been sold out before delivery.
Also mentioned that the 4.0L car may be Euro Only.
Also mentioned that the 4.0L car may be Euro Only.
03-14-2011, 05:38 PM
#25
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I think this is primarily a pricing issue. The car is amazing don't get me wrong. But its effectively a lightweight version of the 2008 with more boost and as others said its no CGT. Its special only because of its high price and Porsche marketed it as a special car by limiting the numbers. So, I think its overpriced for the market.
Secondly, its a supply and demand issue. Porsche misread the market for the car by nearly 10%. If the numbers I have are correct (15/120) if they were expecting a sellout before arrival. With most volume are or mfgs that would be a major issue, but given the relative numbers not sold, its not for Porsche. If they has misread boxster sales as GM did with the H3, then Porsche would have issues.
Given that the current inventory will sell and there will be no more made, its definitely not a dud and as with other Porsche GT cars, people will love them or hate them, and drive them or garage them.
Secondly, its a supply and demand issue. Porsche misread the market for the car by nearly 10%. If the numbers I have are correct (15/120) if they were expecting a sellout before arrival. With most volume are or mfgs that would be a major issue, but given the relative numbers not sold, its not for Porsche. If they has misread boxster sales as GM did with the H3, then Porsche would have issues.
Given that the current inventory will sell and there will be no more made, its definitely not a dud and as with other Porsche GT cars, people will love them or hate them, and drive them or garage them.
03-14-2011, 06:06 PM
#26
Between T4/T5 shift into 5th (late edit- I LIED! I was 3rd to 4th. Need coffee!!!) and as I recall velocity before brake application was 122mph. As well, note I was being a lazy bastard and went through T2 hairpin in 3rd gear! Gotta love boost...
Without doubt car has way more potential than I have skill to exploit it. Both days I was fearful of full throttle through T1 and down into T2 as I did not know how much I had caught up to the car in front of me and cars were being let out onto track on the left side track entrance during sessions. With that said, this car felt much more planted through T1 due to much higher downforce.
Last edited by savyboy; 03-14-2011 at 10:28 PM.
03-14-2011, 06:19 PM
#27
03-14-2011, 06:21 PM
#28
And I am not the worlds fastest driver. Far from it
Between T4/T5 shift into 5th and as I recall velocity before brake application was 122mph. As well, note I was being a lazy bastard and went through T2 hairpin in 3rd gear! Gotta love boost...
Without doubt car has way more potential than I have skill to exploit it. Both days I was fearful of full throttle through T1 and down into T2 as I did not know how much I had caught up to the car in front of me and cars were being let out onto track on the left side track entrance during sessions. With that said, this car felt much more planted through T1 due to much higher downforce.
Between T4/T5 shift into 5th and as I recall velocity before brake application was 122mph. As well, note I was being a lazy bastard and went through T2 hairpin in 3rd gear! Gotta love boost...
Without doubt car has way more potential than I have skill to exploit it. Both days I was fearful of full throttle through T1 and down into T2 as I did not know how much I had caught up to the car in front of me and cars were being let out onto track on the left side track entrance during sessions. With that said, this car felt much more planted through T1 due to much higher downforce.
I did notice the 3rd gear through T2. Lazyboy. Time for you to make another pilgrimage to PSDS.
Also a low gain mic and dead kitten might help with the cabin noise on race-keeper. And send those guys a pic of your GT2 RS tach so they have the correct red line.
That's your chores for today. : )
03-14-2011, 06:35 PM
#29
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I would be happier with the 2RS if it had bigger brakes on it. Especially Savy talking about not even taking it to the limits. Who knows really? Do the PCCBS do a good.job of slowing her down enough or should we go in the opposite direction like with a lot of the GT3 drivers going to steal for track duty?
03-14-2011, 07:01 PM
#30
+1. I can't afford a GT2RS, but I appreciate the hell out of my GT3 and can only imagine what a GT2 must be like. Maybe I just don't get it but if I had the $ I would buy a 2 RS over any Ferrari or Lambo I can think of. It is a Porsche thing I guess, but what I most admire about Porsche is that you can run the crap out of them. They aren't just garage queens but can be reliably tracked and will suffer more abuse than most. Workhorses, that offer no excuse. Savyboy, I'll have to live vicariously through you but major props for running that beautiful machine. That's what it was made for.