Ride Quality - 993 turbo vs. current GT3?
02-09-2011, 03:29 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
02-09-2011, 04:12 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I would keep the 993tt- it's a great street car plus it's a classic. But if it spends ^all it's time on the track ^no question the gt3 is my ammo. Mike
02-09-2011, 10:54 PM
#19
Well, Doc, I just returned from 2017, and I have to tell you, I wish I had held off on the 991 GT3 and gotten the 992 Quad-Core Flux-capacitor GT4. It handles like the 991.2 GT3 but has the new holonav system and autoflush seats.
No, seriously now, I have wanted and driven the 993TTs, had a 97 C4S and loved it, had a 997.1TT and liked it a lot, and have a 996.2GT3 (track ho), and 997.2GT3 (street princess). And love them both a great deal. And I am someone who was disgusted and depressed when the 996's came out, thinking the old sweet 911 look, feel, and sound was going to be extinct. I slapped some vinyl wrap on the 996 headlights and forgot about the fried eggs.
The 6 is smooth on the track and I have no complaints about manners on the street, though the 997.2GT3 is uniquely as supple as a 997TT, yet precise. I think Porsche hit the mark, making the 7.2 a perfect blend of raw, visceral, and luxury comfort (that can be stripped ad lib to make it a quasi-cup car for the track).
It goes back to the usual design / handling issues. Do you want point-n-squirt hyperspace acceleration a la the Millenium Falcon or do you want razor-sharp precision handling with marginal, yawn-inducing low-end torque that howls in the higher octaves? Think Tie Fighter - Because that is what the 997.2GT3 with an RSS XPipe sounds like.
But, I guess all of those observations are somewhat irrelevant since you are trying to decide on the 991. Do what I do when I am excited about a future vehicle purchase - pre-accessorize.
I have some 991 valve stem covers I'll sell you .......
02-09-2011, 11:25 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Hey Guru, great post.
While your first sentence might be in jest, I read it to say: "Drive and enjoy what you've got. The future will take care of itself".
While your first sentence might be in jest, I read it to say: "Drive and enjoy what you've got. The future will take care of itself".
02-09-2011, 11:41 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Not that I need to, but I'm going to clarify why I am discussing the upcoming 991 GT3 instead of the current offering - it most certainly has nothing to do with whether I think it will be a better car than the 997 GT3 or not. The long and short of it is that this past week marked an end to an incredibly difficult couple of years. The senior partners in our practice effectively put a financial stranglehold on my collegue and I. The end result was that a few months ago we paid them a fair sum of cash to purchase their share of the practices that we had basically built. On top of that I had amassed a huge debt load in the process, trying to hold on to my home and basically get by however possible. On friday I wrote close to $175K in checks to various creditors, effectively eliminating all high interest debt.
Although I would love nothing more than to go out and pick up a GT3 now, I would much rather do the responsible thing and pay for one outright - which will probably mean waiting a year or so. By that time the 997.2 GT3 will most likely not be offered. If it is - that's great, I'll jump on it. I'm not a fan of carrying debt and, although I could probably easily finance the car now, it's not something I'm willing to do. I know that most forum members would probably understand this completely.
Although I would love nothing more than to go out and pick up a GT3 now, I would much rather do the responsible thing and pay for one outright - which will probably mean waiting a year or so. By that time the 997.2 GT3 will most likely not be offered. If it is - that's great, I'll jump on it. I'm not a fan of carrying debt and, although I could probably easily finance the car now, it's not something I'm willing to do. I know that most forum members would probably understand this completely.
02-10-2011, 04:04 AM
#23
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Not that I need to, but I'm going to clarify why I am discussing the upcoming 991 GT3 instead of the current offering - it most certainly has nothing to do with whether I think it will be a better car than the 997 GT3 or not. The long and short of it is that this past week marked an end to an incredibly difficult couple of years. The senior partners in our practice effectively put a financial stranglehold on my collegue and I. The end result was that a few months ago we paid them a fair sum of cash to purchase their share of the practices that we had basically built. On top of that I had amassed a huge debt load in the process, trying to hold on to my home and basically get by however possible. On friday I wrote close to $175K in checks to various creditors, effectively eliminating all high interest debt.
Although I would love nothing more than to go out and pick up a GT3 now, I would much rather do the responsible thing and pay for one outright - which will probably mean waiting a year or so. By that time the 997.2 GT3 will most likely not be offered. If it is - that's great, I'll jump on it. I'm not a fan of carrying debt and, although I could probably easily finance the car now, it's not something I'm willing to do. I know that most forum members would probably understand this completely.
Although I would love nothing more than to go out and pick up a GT3 now, I would much rather do the responsible thing and pay for one outright - which will probably mean waiting a year or so. By that time the 997.2 GT3 will most likely not be offered. If it is - that's great, I'll jump on it. I'm not a fan of carrying debt and, although I could probably easily finance the car now, it's not something I'm willing to do. I know that most forum members would probably understand this completely.
Who knows, you may end up loving the used GT3 and considering a trade up for the 991 GT3.......
02-15-2020, 05:42 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
I imagine this question has been threaded through and through here, but once more, with feeling.
I've had the garage sharing 996 GT3, 997 GT3 and 993 Turbo at the same time. I found myself driving the 997 GT3 and the other two stayed indoors. When i debated keeping the 7 GT3 or the 6 GT3, the newer car won out because of its newness and because it is the better road car, though on the track, I'm still split between the two. The 7 GT3 has the better engine design and slightly greater performance envelope. Both GT3s require much the same suspension and brake upgrades to match the chassis and engine.
The 993, parked beside any GT3, looks tiny (and pleasing to the eye compared to the slab-sided wet pants 911s.) I drive a 2010 RS today, and it feels close-fit and sharply defined, but every time I get back in the 993 Turbo (in 2WD with various upgrades) it reminds me of what a fitted suit feels like compared to "off the rack." And of course, the 993 itself is still a relatively large 911 and a hulking muscle builder compared to the ("real") early long-nose 911's like the legendary '72-'73 cars.
In driving on the track, you feel the weight of the 997, especially as it moves around in the rear, so get PDEM or WEVO semi-solid engine mounts or something to keep the lump in one spot. In the 993 with solid engine mounts, the car feels rear-biased, but don't move around on the line. The 997.2 GT3 RS is the first (only) 911 to finally bring the balance back to the rear end handling -- still very much a rearward biased steering style (all throttle for weight transfer, steering for minor line correction) and again, both 7 and 6 GT3 benefit from conventional suspension "uprated" components (mostly to remove compliance and keep the car settled through the turns.)
So what's all that say? Well, if you already have the 993, sure, go play with the new ones and it's a buyers market. If you want one 911 to keep "forever" then the 993 is the easy decision for me. The challenge is to become an expert shopper and find a great one. I like the 993 C4S as the ideal daily driver all round -- just slip it into 2WD mode and make sure it has the sport exhaust. Prices seem "firm" but not high for the 993's in general, so you might not pay too much, but you'll be tasked with a search effort to find a really good one.
In the newer cars, subjectively, I'd rather the 3.6 997.1 GT3 over the 3.8 997.2 GT3. I think the 3.6 is great value, the 3.8 is yet to fully succumb to its depreciation curve and overall, well, I'd not take a 3.6 996 GT3 as a road car -- it's a great track car, but too coarse on the road (and the cabin is hard on the eyes, though the body of the GT3 tends to grow on you over time.)
The 2009/2010 GT3 is significantly advanced in the cabin (navigation system works, doors close with a nice thunk instead of the Toyota hollow, plastic noise.) But you'll pay handsomely at the back end of the deal for the incremental improvements. I haven't had enough experience to say, but others have commented that the 997.2 GT3 felt heavy and soft -- too luxurious and not too sharp.
Bottom line for me in this decision would be to let fate decide -- shop energetically for a 993 of your liking. If you find it, take it and be glad you were lucky to find a good one. If in the search, you encounter the car I'd recommend, the 997.1 GT3 RS at a bargain price with just the right options to your liking, then take it and be glad you were lucky to find the right car at a fair price.
If you've got the budget for the 997.2 GT3, then get the 997.1 GT3 RS. It's the law.
I've had the garage sharing 996 GT3, 997 GT3 and 993 Turbo at the same time. I found myself driving the 997 GT3 and the other two stayed indoors. When i debated keeping the 7 GT3 or the 6 GT3, the newer car won out because of its newness and because it is the better road car, though on the track, I'm still split between the two. The 7 GT3 has the better engine design and slightly greater performance envelope. Both GT3s require much the same suspension and brake upgrades to match the chassis and engine.
The 993, parked beside any GT3, looks tiny (and pleasing to the eye compared to the slab-sided wet pants 911s.) I drive a 2010 RS today, and it feels close-fit and sharply defined, but every time I get back in the 993 Turbo (in 2WD with various upgrades) it reminds me of what a fitted suit feels like compared to "off the rack." And of course, the 993 itself is still a relatively large 911 and a hulking muscle builder compared to the ("real") early long-nose 911's like the legendary '72-'73 cars.
In driving on the track, you feel the weight of the 997, especially as it moves around in the rear, so get PDEM or WEVO semi-solid engine mounts or something to keep the lump in one spot. In the 993 with solid engine mounts, the car feels rear-biased, but don't move around on the line. The 997.2 GT3 RS is the first (only) 911 to finally bring the balance back to the rear end handling -- still very much a rearward biased steering style (all throttle for weight transfer, steering for minor line correction) and again, both 7 and 6 GT3 benefit from conventional suspension "uprated" components (mostly to remove compliance and keep the car settled through the turns.)
So what's all that say? Well, if you already have the 993, sure, go play with the new ones and it's a buyers market. If you want one 911 to keep "forever" then the 993 is the easy decision for me. The challenge is to become an expert shopper and find a great one. I like the 993 C4S as the ideal daily driver all round -- just slip it into 2WD mode and make sure it has the sport exhaust. Prices seem "firm" but not high for the 993's in general, so you might not pay too much, but you'll be tasked with a search effort to find a really good one.
In the newer cars, subjectively, I'd rather the 3.6 997.1 GT3 over the 3.8 997.2 GT3. I think the 3.6 is great value, the 3.8 is yet to fully succumb to its depreciation curve and overall, well, I'd not take a 3.6 996 GT3 as a road car -- it's a great track car, but too coarse on the road (and the cabin is hard on the eyes, though the body of the GT3 tends to grow on you over time.)
The 2009/2010 GT3 is significantly advanced in the cabin (navigation system works, doors close with a nice thunk instead of the Toyota hollow, plastic noise.) But you'll pay handsomely at the back end of the deal for the incremental improvements. I haven't had enough experience to say, but others have commented that the 997.2 GT3 felt heavy and soft -- too luxurious and not too sharp.
Bottom line for me in this decision would be to let fate decide -- shop energetically for a 993 of your liking. If you find it, take it and be glad you were lucky to find a good one. If in the search, you encounter the car I'd recommend, the 997.1 GT3 RS at a bargain price with just the right options to your liking, then take it and be glad you were lucky to find the right car at a fair price.
If you've got the budget for the 997.2 GT3, then get the 997.1 GT3 RS. It's the law.
