Polar Peter

Sorry to hear about a bad SBR experience on this board but I am one that can only speak highly of the organization and the experience I’ve gained from them. Are the cars old? YES, Are they tired? That depends on what you’re talking about… if you’re looking for modern technology (Like your new Porsches) then SBR is not where you want to be, but if you’re looking to either A) learn the fundamentals of racing, B) Learn new tracks C) receive thorough feedback on your driving or D) learn what car control is all about in very primitive yet hard to drive cars……. then this is where you want to be. If you can drive these cars fast, you can conquer anything!!!

Regarding the problem, Did you not realize there was a seat belt problem before you launched from the pits? I cannot believe a mechanic would not have been all over your concern.

I did my 3-day race school in 2000 and still enter SBR events to this day because they are so much fun and relatively inexpensive for what you get, not to mention seat time is seat time…. I have never had a safety problem and I’ve sat in hundreds and hundreds of their cars, most recently several National races in 2010.

Countless other drivers have gone thru the SBR program, a very high percentage of successful pro drivers cut their teeth at SBR and openly contribute their success to the program and instructors…

Again sorry about your experience but it’s not the norm. I will e-mail this thread link to some folks I know well at SBR in the hopes of helping you expedite your refund. From my experiences they are extremely customer service driven.

savyboy

A person from SB finally called me yesterday to ask for my full story and ask questions. We spoke for approx 20 minutes. He requested, and I followed up with, emailed details of the canceled courses. He is going to discuss with the main office Monday and let me know where things go from here. Nothing would make me happier than to receive the refund I requested, and was agreed to, nine weeks ago for the courses that I did not take and the damage deposits collected ($5000+ total).

C.J. Ichiban

I'm with Polar Peter on this one- I've done the Russell, Skippy, and Bondurant courses and have never really had any financial or safety issues at all- for skippy I've still got a 100 buck seat insert with stickers all over it that's just waiting for me to get enough time to do it again.

SB- I understand that you're pissed about not getting your money back- but I guess the other thing readers of this thread need to understand is these points:

no need to prepay for stuff down the line! just do an event as a stand-alone thing and go from there.

yes almost any open cockpit car is sketchy but you're paying less than the cost of a set of rims for a GT3 to race wheel to wheel and get coaching (race weekends are about 4k for skippy) skippy is BUDGET learning and racing.

racing is expensive!

open wheel racing is much more dangerous, uncomfortable (can't hide from rain), etc



-- these schools are meant as a minor league style learning experience. as in, you realize if you're willing to put up with a lot of BS and bad travel/ bad conditions and less than stellar cuisine in order to get somewhere.

if you want the safest, most modern race school thing sign up for the russell 3 day school, and let jeff, nico, tyler and those guys ruin your perception of speed and good driving in the baddest school car on the planet. it is AMAZING. prepare to be humbled. I hit a tire wall doing about 100 in their car (9G impact no big deal) and walked away laughing at how safe it felt if that makes any sense. their cars are brand new by comparison and built to allow a driver to withstand 200mph impacts.

the bondurant formula mazdas are really clean and amazingly prepped but the track itself is a bit mickey mouse. I learned a lot in one race weekend with them and pretty much learned left foot braking as a sink or swim course in 3 hours on the practice day.

savyboy

Excellent post CJ. Very good points. In my case I requested a seat insert and was advised the last foam available had already been used therefore a custom insert was not an option available to me when I attended my course.

I was fully prepared to enjoy my experience for what it was and move on and not say a word to anybody about anything. And I did. Until the refund promised me didn't happen.

Let me reiterate the issue here which I am struggling to make clear- I was told the unused courses would be refunded. They weren't. I was told a check was sent three weeks ago. And that was a lie because it never arrived. And nobody at the main phone number picked up in the 6-8 times I tried to reach someone during the course of a business day. That is the primary, singular overriding issue here, inability to obtain funds agreed were due me.

I have no doubt people had/are having a good experience with Skippy.

996FLT6

I don't really want to blame neone but given the situation that from the onset that safety was an issue ie harness loose and other things- why didn't u just stop there and ask for refund? Was the harness and other safety stuff mentioned at the get go or u waited to later after u done a full day? Safety is foremost for me and if I was in that position I wouldn't even bother going out on track and risk my life and someone else's. Mike

C.J. Ichiban

mike I think he said that the straps went from okay to terrible during the session and that he didn't complete the day

crispenigl

Hi,

Sorry to hear about this event. It brought me great sadness to read this because SB needs all the good clients it can get and driving one away is horrible.

Full disclosure: I have been driving in SB regional race series for 5 seasons now and it has been the best experience of my life. I certainly have had a few significant issues during that time period, so I totally believe what happened to you.

The cars do occasionally have issues because they do not get updated enough, but if you find a problem, they will replace/fix it for you and/or put you in a new car. In the race series itself, they do a decent job of car equalization, which is hard. The economy has certainly hurt SB a bit and it is painful to me to read that they lost a potentially great client in yourself. I certainly believe you that you had issues, I have many issues myself, but they have tried to help me. I am not saying SB is perfect, they certainly have flaws that I get frustrated with, but they usually try to help/fix them. I am just wondering what they did about the belts when you told them about it.

In regards to your helmet, I had to switch from my Bell to a Arai because the front lip created the same exact issue that you had. I am bigger guy and the Bell just didnt fit, and it was impossible WITH hans, so i drove a couple of races sans hans. Once I got my Arai, all issues were resolved with that. Did you mention the helmet issue because they have other helmets without lips that you might have had more success with. They can give you helmets for free.

I am glad to hear the positive feedback on the instructors, for me the SB instructors, for what your paying for the school, is the best value on the planet. I have learned a metric ton from them and it is amazing the level of instructor talent that they have their. For example they have instructors who have won the F1 Red Bull shoot out.

It is too bad the helmet issue did not get worked out. Driving a SB open wheel car is one of the most amazing experiences of my life and I have vastly improved as a race driver because of it.

I love driving skippy cars, but certainly agree that it would be great for the company to invest more in their cars.

In the unlikely event you give them a second try, you can do the computer car before a race weekend, which can also be amazing. I have learned so much by comparing my lap data with a pro lap. It is often shocking to find that something easy that you can do can improve your performance.

Please let me know if they do not give you the refund, I know some of the same people the Peter knows and will be glad to help a fellow rennlister.

Greg

ps. I started writing this BEFORE CJ wrote and made his comments, sorry for the redundancy :P I had to book my flights to Daytona and then come back to this :P

pps. CJ is fun as heck to race with and his comments about the cost of a SB race weekend is spot on.. Every other race series is way way more money.

crispenigl

One other quick point - It took me quite a while to get used to racing in the rain. After lots of seat time, I now love it, but I hated it for forever. Yes you get quite wet

Polar Peter

On another note, Hans has 4 different models (offering 10, 20, 30 or 40 degree angle) each specific to the race car type and/or seat position. I have to use a different device when switching from sports cars to open wheel cars, the seating position dictates the model.

I own two models as the seating position between open wheel and sportscars is completely different. If you use the wrong model it compromises belt tensioning and head angle. What model did you run?

MJSpeed

You get what you pay for...

In no way is that a knock on Spin Harder, it's just a universal law. Skippy serves a great purpose (as far as racing).

National Competition
Open Wheel Instructing/Racing
Young drovers going head to head with older ones all with different career goals yet one undeniable focus; driving/racing skill improvement. A whole "season" for a fraction of the cost of one Formula Atlantic race.

Are there better venues/schools with better equipment? Most certainly.

That said, once again you get what you pay for.

C.J. Ichiban

peter that's a good point about the hans device- I've also got 2 as the open wheel angled one is much less likely to have issues- but at 1500 a piece for them, its a costly item

Sweeper

Very True!! I use a 30degree angle for the Formula Ford, what do you use for the Pcar?

Fritz Flynn

Not only should you get a refund but a free 3 day school at your convenience. If you get what you pay for then clearly SB should charge more and start with paying for better managers.

Based on your experience I'll take my 5k and sign up for a couple of SCCA schools in a rented SM, get my license and have some money left over to go racing. Skippy should realize that this sort of customer service is the worst form of advertising but hey I guess you get what you pay for.

Carrera GT

Excellent point -- the problem of "head lock" is usually the helmet binding on the front arms of the HANS device, but the safety issue was worn cinch buckles.

Without going to a "guilty until proven innocent" it's apparent that the SB operation at Laguna is not keeping up safety or customer satisfaction (communication) standards -- this is a disservice the "feeder" classes of racing. We really do need SB to lift their game and it sounds like they've got simple issues to resolve, but there might be some root cause (perhaps complacency or stifled budgets in hard times) but there's no excuses.

Sounds like the last thing they can afford is giving away free seats and I think that the issue is to resolve the maintenance and logistics. But I completely agree with setting the price to reflect the cost and equally clearly, there's a management issue here.

Skip Barber simply needs to do the job right. If this particular pile of bird poop landed on my desk, I'd want all the cars to go through their inspection, all faults addressed and a letter to the customer recognizing the mistakes and offering a credit towards a future school where SB could prove they've addressed the maintenance and logistics issues. It seems to me they also need to go back to past customers with a follow-up QA letter ("take our survey and receive $100 off your next school") to see how other customers reflect on their experience.

I've been given the same advice. Comparing SB with Russell is chalk and cheese.

ThatOneGuy

The Mrs. wanted to buy 3 days of formula school @ Skip Barber for my 40th, along with a nice weekend in Monterey. Now I'm thinking we should stay home and I should commute to Sears Point and take the Russell school instead.

I did have a good time doing their sports cars advanced driving school 2 years ago but I'd rather not mess around when it comes to open wheel cars & safety.