Porsche PCCB Brake Pad Wear- What the Frick?
09-13-2010, 09:11 PM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
Ah! Sorry. No, rear end was pretty much ok. Calipers were a-ok.
Hi Rod- I have seen the beveling on my RS before, but never this severe. And with such variability of pads in same caliper. My Spyder (PCCB as well) does it way more on the front, the rears tend to be pristine.
Interesting to see all the responses of dust boot cracking.
You know, my RS is loaded to the gills with cooling ducts, no less than three per rear wheel along with various air flow guide pieces. Don't think there is any room for one more?
CarerraGT also seemed ot think 5 days was good wear...hmmm...
Dang Peter- how about some rotor pics? 
Brendo- you are brave to post this and it is hugely helpful for people (that do not already know better) to understand and appreciate the risks here. Good that Porsche is stepping up to pay for the repair.
Cracked the caliper pistons? Holy crap! I would love to see the pics? Never heard of that? But then your rotor is throughly destroyed so there was some heat being generated aside from the metal to carbon friction issue.
Glad this is all working out for you and thanks for contibuting to this post.
+1
+1
pete: I usually get more beveling from the front pads and it is much more uniform from inside to outside pads and from side to side. The shape of the rears on the side with the most beveling almost makes me think that the piston engagement is off form inside to outside with one side doing most of the stopping. As Mooty indiicates, the dust seals go quickly--they just don't seem to be able to stand up to the head from track usage and it really helps to flip the pads. By the way, five track days on a set of pads is very good. Also I notiiced better dust seal and brake pad wear since installing rear cooling ducts.
Interesting to see all the responses of dust boot cracking.
You know, my RS is loaded to the gills with cooling ducts, no less than three per rear wheel along with various air flow guide pieces. Don't think there is any room for one more?
CarerraGT also seemed ot think 5 days was good wear...hmmm...
I am so deep on this right now it's embarassing.
i had 3mm on 3/4 pads on the fronts, 5mm on the rears. the front inside wore so bad the backing plate did destroy the rotor. porsche replaced it. i got the brake warning in the paddock and cancelled my next day so i wouldn't do any harm. it was a big surprise to see the damage to the rotor in the left inside.
on the fronts, i have GT3 scoops to drive more air but on a 100F day, they were not enough. i also cracked the pistons in the calipers and they are being replaced also.
i had 3mm on 3/4 pads on the fronts, 5mm on the rears. the front inside wore so bad the backing plate did destroy the rotor. porsche replaced it. i got the brake warning in the paddock and cancelled my next day so i wouldn't do any harm. it was a big surprise to see the damage to the rotor in the left inside.
on the fronts, i have GT3 scoops to drive more air but on a 100F day, they were not enough. i also cracked the pistons in the calipers and they are being replaced also.
Cracked the caliper pistons? Holy crap! I would love to see the pics? Never heard of that? But then your rotor is throughly destroyed so there was some heat being generated aside from the metal to carbon friction issue.
Glad this is all working out for you and thanks for contibuting to this post.
+1
09-13-2010, 10:39 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
09-14-2010, 01:08 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL. Home of Florida Man.
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Brendo- you are brave to post this and it is hugely helpful for people (that do not already know better) to understand and appreciate the risks here. Good that Porsche is stepping up to pay for the repair.
Cracked the caliper pistons? Holy crap! I would love to see the pics? Never heard of that? But then your rotor is throughly destroyed so there was some heat being generated aside from the metal to carbon friction issue.
Glad this is all working out for you and thanks for contibuting to this post.
Cracked the caliper pistons? Holy crap! I would love to see the pics? Never heard of that? But then your rotor is throughly destroyed so there was some heat being generated aside from the metal to carbon friction issue.
Glad this is all working out for you and thanks for contibuting to this post.
i have the car maintained at my dealer and while i'm not happy that we've had to work on it, i've had all good experiences. of course YMMV, but they've always stood behind their product for me....
09-14-2010, 04:59 AM
#20
Five track days on Pagid P50 Greens, the PCCB "Motorsport" pads.
Rear brakes destroyed in bizarre fashion. Passenger side outboard pad beveled into oblivion. Inboard pad no bevel.
Driver side inboard pad badly beveled, outboard pad flat.
WTF is going on? This is crazy? Just how flexy are these calipers? Is the piston sizing totally screwed up? This is the kind of thing that really sticks in my craw given Porsche's "Racing, not Posing" marketing approach.
I am aware this is a known problem, so why doesn't Porsche step up and fix it? A pretty damning view of Brembo quality and engineering, that is for sure.
Furthermore, one caliper piston dust boot on each caliper is badly cracked. 6 month old car, 7000 miles.
If you are tracking, it is critical that you examine the leading edge of your inboard pads as you could easily get into the pad backing plate and destroy your rotors and never trigger a low brake pad warning on the dash.
As Peter (TrakCar) noted in a different thread, the new RS eats rear pads on a 2:1 ratio vs front pads.
This is wrong on so many levels
Rear brakes destroyed in bizarre fashion. Passenger side outboard pad beveled into oblivion. Inboard pad no bevel.
Driver side inboard pad badly beveled, outboard pad flat.
WTF is going on? This is crazy? Just how flexy are these calipers? Is the piston sizing totally screwed up? This is the kind of thing that really sticks in my craw given Porsche's "Racing, not Posing" marketing approach.
I am aware this is a known problem, so why doesn't Porsche step up and fix it? A pretty damning view of Brembo quality and engineering, that is for sure.
Furthermore, one caliper piston dust boot on each caliper is badly cracked. 6 month old car, 7000 miles.
If you are tracking, it is critical that you examine the leading edge of your inboard pads as you could easily get into the pad backing plate and destroy your rotors and never trigger a low brake pad warning on the dash.
As Peter (TrakCar) noted in a different thread, the new RS eats rear pads on a 2:1 ratio vs front pads.
This is wrong on so many levels
I had this EXACT thing happen on my 997.1 gt3.
On the front the reason for the uneven wear left to right was because of a fan and I cant recall the rest of the reasons, but this is a known issue.
09-14-2010, 05:02 AM
#21
09-14-2010, 05:05 AM
#22
i had 3mm on 3/4 pads on the fronts, 5mm on the rears. the front inside wore so bad the backing plate did destroy the rotor. porsche replaced it. i got the brake warning in the paddock and cancelled my next day so i wouldn't do any harm. it was a big surprise to see the damage to the rotor in the left inside.
how did u swing that?
09-14-2010, 12:47 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Dang Peter- how about some rotor pics?
Rotors:OK, but starting to look used, no connecting holes, no cracks to the edge yet, but I doubt I get an additional 8 days out of them. I have a set of spares, but I will need slotted ones soon.
Pads:
+/- 5mm material left on front pads (Flipped after 4 days) and 2-5 mm in rear pads (Not flipped, almost metal to metal inside.) I'll post some pics next week when I replace them.
So about 30 sessions, all in 90F weather 5 days at Sebring, 1 day PBIR, 2 days Road ATL.
Front:
09-14-2010, 12:51 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by malmasri
I am replacing pads at 50% or less to avoid the any possibilty of damage to rotors in case of uneven wear...still cheaper than a new rotor IMO
TOTALLY!
I am replacing pads at 50% or less to avoid the any possibilty of damage to rotors in case of uneven wear...still cheaper than a new rotor IMO
TOTALLY!
09-14-2010, 01:09 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
i measured my pccb thickness after 6 days on the ring and 2 days at leipzig. they are exactly the same thickness. the pads are about the thickness of the backing plate in the rear. tad more up front. oem pads. there is a little angle to the rears. fronts are even. i know steel rotors would be toast by now. if the rotors last 24 more track days i think they even out to replacement cost of expensive oems. i'm switching to P50's now, and will monitor closely…well hopefully starting another thread on my P50 condition.
09-14-2010, 01:20 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Jim, we are on to something regarding the never ending PCCB VS Steel rotor story.
How much is a (Aftermarket?) set of PCCB rotors?
I think the story is changing, PCCB is getting better maybe cheaper, while MKII steel much more $$..
With MKI I did 30 days on my steel rotors because fronts slotted aftermarket $600.00 BOTH, rear OEM $300.00 OEM. Or $900.00 per year.
Since my pads cost almost the same as a set of rotors, I used up the pads.
With MKII it looks I get max 16 days on the fronts and Max 30 days on the rears. If I do 30 days a year, I will spend $3K a year (2 sets of fronts 1 set of rears) on rotors, so i will also use more pads trying to make the rotors last a bit longer.
I'm looking for slotted aftermarket cheap ones again like on MKI... Or even not cheaper but something that lasts 30 days..
How much is a (Aftermarket?) set of PCCB rotors?
I think the story is changing, PCCB is getting better maybe cheaper, while MKII steel much more $$..
With MKI I did 30 days on my steel rotors because fronts slotted aftermarket $600.00 BOTH, rear OEM $300.00 OEM. Or $900.00 per year.
Since my pads cost almost the same as a set of rotors, I used up the pads.
With MKII it looks I get max 16 days on the fronts and Max 30 days on the rears. If I do 30 days a year, I will spend $3K a year (2 sets of fronts 1 set of rears) on rotors, so i will also use more pads trying to make the rotors last a bit longer.
I'm looking for slotted aftermarket cheap ones again like on MKI... Or even not cheaper but something that lasts 30 days..
09-14-2010, 01:37 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
i measured my pccb thickness after 6 days on the ring and 2 days at leipzig. they are exactly the same thickness. the pads are about the thickness of the backing plate in the rear. tad more up front. oem pads. there is a little angle to the rears. fronts are even. i know steel rotors would be toast by now. if the rotors last 24 more track days i think they even out to replacement cost of expensive oems. i'm switching to P50's now, and will monitor closely…well hopefully starting another thread on my P50 condition.
Your dealer guys to show you their book. They do not go by thickness but rather surface condition. When they start to go the surface will have a rough surface and acts like sandpaper on the pads. Brendo's it different due to a caliper failure and accerated the process to a single event.
It would not surprise me if there really is a problem with the pistons that are the root cause of the bevel issue as well. Perhaps heat in the caliper creates a piston issue?