No HTwo O

What "level"? That of the actual costs or the income of the actual owner?

I would expect the maintenance costs of the Porsche to be lower. Especially for a car that is driven.

Larry Cable

seriously - sheesh if only PCNA and the dealers were a little more organised, then I would have happily waited for an RS rather than buying my GT3 back in April ... but as usual the future back then looked bleak for any allocations or even cars ... sigh

if only that mex blue RS @ Champion wasn't $170k ...

GT3

I meant the "level" of anyone buying $300K+ cars. I dont think maintenance cost would really matter to the buyer, even if it were something like $10K-$20K difference between 2 cars... Most GT3 owners that track their cars spend $6-$10K a year in tires alone...

This past year I was debating on getting GT2 RS, MP4-12C or 458 italia, for next year... but I've come a the conclusion that the money would be better spent on getting a CGT instead, regardless of its superior maintenance cost...

Maybe thats just me?

20C4S

Larry,
did u get ur 3 at Pacific?

ADias

Agreed!

mooty

oh, pls dont remind me how much i threw away on tires this year.

GT3

Im serious when I say, you were the first person I though of when I wrote that post lol

Probably more than CGT maintenace money

Bill_C4S

Ok Mooty...But the smile that resulted? The Bang for Buck?

mooty

i didn't drive as much this year.
car wasn't ready.
but to finish the year (november), i will have about 11-12k in tires.....
i think i should try 15" tires cheaper

superquant

I have a .2 GT3RS and a 458. I am guessing you have not ridden in a 458 or a 599 or know about the difference in the manufacturing process between ferrari and porsche.

For one, there is probably 10x as much manual labor that goes into building a 458 as will go into the GT2RS, or any 911 for that matter. One is a handcrafted product with hundreds of hours of human labor, the other is a massed produced product built largely by a bunch of robots on a continuously moving assembly line where every single car starts off with the exact same chassis and interior. The amount of time it takes to build the engine alone for the 458, each of which is sand cast from a one-off mold at the on-site foundry and then hand finished, is about the time it takes to build an entire 911 variant. It takes about 3 weeks on average to build a typical f-car.

Secondly, a 458 engine produces 562bhp and has a 9000 rpm redline, normally aspirated. That is 127bhp/L, which is a record, and it didn't happen because some guys figured out how to turn up the boost pressure on the ECU. And there is plenty of torque, 80% of which is available at 3250rpm. Porsche gets 620bhp, with 6750 redline (!?) by doubling the boost on their existing turbo engine. There is nothing impressive or innovative about that. I won't even get into the difference in sound coming from the GT2RS (I have not heard it, but I have heard the GT2).

Third, the electronics in the 458 are 2 generations ahead of what Porsche fits in their cars in terms of both the traction control as well as the active electronic differential (plenty has been said on these forums about the LSD in the RS).

Finally, the aerodynamics. The 458 produces all the downforce and cooling it needs while keeping super clean lines and without any ridiculous looking wings and intakes. It takes a lot more effort to do this.

The 2RS is undoubtedly a very fast car, and it will put up spectacular ring times. But in the real world, where most people drive their cars, I would wager the performance differences would be insignificant, if any.

I love my 3RS, and it is a wonderful car for combining ease of daily use with a very pure driving experience. But when it comes to value for incremental dollars spent, the 3RS is already pushing it compared to a regular 911. And now we are talking about an extra 100k for the 2RS for effectively the same car with an overboosted engine? Porsche is raping its clients and doing nothing to innovate and earn the extra dollar, simple as that. On the other hand, I guarantee you that after a 10 minute drive in a 458, there is a not an enthusiast on the planet that would question whether the car is worth its price, or what the factory did to earn it. That has been true for my p-car loving friends or anyone else.

I hope I don't come off as a porsche hater, because I am not at all. As I said, I love my 3RS. But there are big difference between these two companies and there are plenty of reasons why some products are "intrinsically" worth more, regardless of whether the 0-100 time is the same on paper.

Nugget

Yeah, and my girlfriend uses shampoo that's made from pure tibetan yak tears and imported turkish unfertilized guava plant extract. I have no doubt that those rare ingredients contribute significantly to its cost but I've always been skeptical that they contribute to a better hair-washing experience than my $1.99 bottle of Prell.

I hope I don't come off as a ferrari hater, because I am not at all. I think the 458 is a staggering car and if I had the wallet and garage space to buy one I'd do it in a heartbeat. I just want to push back mildly on your use of the word "intrinsic" because in the Warren Buffet sense of the word you might have a tough time making the case that a sand-cast, one-off molded engine block and hand assembly actually add to the intrinsic value of a car. There is no debate that they add to the production cost and consequently the MSRP.

The two cars are different tools for different fools and at the end of the day I'm glad we (as buyers) have the options we do.

No HTwo O

This post is useless without pictures.

superquant

You make good points - I was not making the case that their process makes anything better on an absolute basis per se, but simply that I know why the car is so expensive. On the other hand, no one can explain why the GT2RS is so expensive. My point is that porsche did almost nothing to earn the extra money they are asking for the 2RS MSRP compared to their other 911 models, to the OP's question. As a potential buyer, that is a major turn off.

Nugget

There she is.

No HTwo O

^Hair looks good!