axhoaxho

I guess it is less of an alignment done wrong, more like somethting at the strut was very slighly bent or knocked out-of-spec while the car was bottomed during the spiritual driving.

While the strut was compressed as mentioned, the bent or out-of-spec damage around the strut got stuck. And then while the steering wheel was turned (it changed the whole geometry of the suspension, like camber), some force frees the stucking strut.

Just my guess...

Regards,

Larry Cable

I would have thought that might throw a fault code for the PASM but it might not be detectable by the eNannies ...

johnr265

The first time it happened, I really don't think I hit any bumps hard enough to bend anything. I was probably only going 40 mph or so over a tight bumpy stretch of road. There were no potholes, just dips of rough road. Probably much less stress than hitting the curbing on a track so I'd be shocked if that bent or damaged anything.

johnr265

OK, time for an update. The car has thoroughly been examined by two dealers, one even took off the strut and compressed it to see if it was binding. Both said all looks ok. There are no bent components, no mis-torqued lug nuts, no fault codes in any of the systems, no signs of rubbing (he said he removed a few stones from the springs but nothing major), and the struts appear to be working ok. I got the car home, hoping the disassembly/reassembly would magically fix the problem but it hasn't. I duplicated the problem yet again.

Where do I go from here? I have no idea if the car would be safe on the track and the car is all but worthless if it can't be tracked. Do I keep pushing them or should I just forget it and try and push it through the Lemon law (NJ is 20 days out of service and this has been ongoing for longer than that now).

911SLOW

Go to another dealer this looks bad.
Your play card is that you can duplicate the problem for them to see.

I have a lift on my 6 not oem but similar to porsche's and I just cannot understand how the car can sit lower than the regular height.

If they can't solve it then try to do the change.

John

Larry Cable

did either of them actually drive the car and replicate the problem?

I have never lemoned a car so I don't know how to advise you on this.

Personally I would have thought that your dealer would have escalated this to PCNA regional rep for resolution.

sounds like the next step would be to replace the front struts to see if that resolves the problem, and take it from there.

If the dealer is reluctant to do this then lemon it there seems to be enough RS'es around that you could replace it readily

perhaps if you can find a stretch of road where you can replicate this reliably you should take a dealer mech out in the car to demonstrate 1st hand the problem.

good luck with this .... keep us posted

johnr265

Actually, I can reliably reproduce it and I brought the dealer mechanic with me and showed him on the first try. He couldn't believe it but it was EXACTLY as I had described it. It has now been to two different dealers, both not sure what's up. Lastly, I just tried it now with PASM on and it made no difference. The second swore the struts were fine (but also stated they were the only things strong enough to bind against the springs).

-John

Larry Cable

I think the dealer comment about the struts being the only thing that can be binding is significant, lets face it "something" in the suspension system must be binding under "full" compression such that the front springs are mechanically
unable to "rebound" the suspension back ... I think the fact that turning the wheel releases it is also a potential indicator as to the potential root cause.

For me, the issue is that if this happens while on road or on track the front of the car is not functioning properly; while it is compressed, or when it unsticks, during which it could result in poor/dangerous handling, esp on track.

Now that a dealer mechanic has seen this, it is a potential warranty issue, they should resolve it, perhaps escalating this to their PCNA regional rep to replace the front struts completely to see if this will rectify the problem (which it may or may not)

If they are unwilling to do this, then I think you have little recourse but to lemon it unless you want to purchase the new front struts and replace them yourself ... assuming that it is in fact those that are the cause of this.

axhoaxho

Sorry for being blunt, did you come clean and tell the dealers about the bottomings during your spiritual driving?

The reason I asked is... my gut feeling guesses that the techs had a clue about what had happened (something broke during questionable driving, and won't be covered under warranty.) They just didn't want to touch it due to the potential liability, or due to the risk not being paid for their troubleshooting work hours either by PCNA or customer. They also didn't hope to insult a customer by asking how did they drive the car prior to the problem occured.

If I were the tech or SA, it might not worth to spend hours to break-down the suspension of the car, and discover that it will not be a PCNA warranty-covered job. And then, the customer may not commit to any liability. As a result, then just played mute to you.

Usually, if you frankly tell them about the bottoming, and sincerely tell them that you will pay for any trouble-shooting work hours if PNCA won't; they will understand and may stand by your side to work on the case with PCNA.

Just a thought, and I can be totally wrong.

With best regards,

johnr265

The tech was in the car while I was doing it so they know exactly how the car is/was being driven. I can honestly say I was going no faster over these areas in the RS than I have in any car I've owned and I've never had a problem before. I don't race on the street nor drive irresponsibly (that's what the track is for). I must say that if it was my driving that "broke" the car, then Porsche's must indeed be fragile (which we know is generally not the case).

axhoaxho

Understood.

Sorry if I was confused, because in the original post below, I read words like 'driving rather spirited', 'bottoms out hard', 'and not twice but three times.'; hence leaded to my misunderstanding.

Sorry again, my bad. Best luck to your RS,

Regards,

johnr265

So, another update, everything is back to stock specs (alignment, bars, etc...). Seems to be that I can no longer produce the problem. Still no answer of why it happened in the first place. My alignment specs were not much different than of those on this site. There are two adjustments recommended for "racing circuit alignments", 1) using the back hole on the lower control arm and 2) rotating/using the other set of holes on the strut tops. From what I have gleaned from this forum, most have their struts rotated though I know some have not had to.

On the alignment that caused the problem, the strut tops were NOT rotated though I think they did switch the hole on the lower control arm. At some point, I will have to do more playing but I am happy to be able to drive it again after it being out of commission for a month!

Nizer

John:

Great to meet you last weekend. Great looking car (but I'm biased) - like the silver wheels. Glad to hear that you at least eliminated the problem. Hopefully if you decide to take another run at the alignment it won't cause the same problem.

Nizer

johnr265

Indeed, that was fun. Monticello is a great track. Hopefully, there will be some opportunities in the future to get back there.

Larry Cable

I hate to say it but I had a feeling that the alignment was the root cause ... glad you got it cleared up!