ADias

There you go. Hopefully with a short wheelbase, but that may be lost forever with the extra 100mm in the 991.

Carrera GT

There's 100mm in the 991? Let's hope they've shortened the overhangs!
100mm gets it into GT class. I think the 2010 3RS is already so stable at speed (I've never experienced a 911 that's so sure footed at high speed) there's absolutely no reason to give up polar moment to the tune of 100mm. This 991 has a high bar set by the new RS.

Carrera GT

Price is one place where the whole idea falls down. They're "targeting" $235K. Options are elaborate and will be expensive to say the least. There's about $100K in options (my guesstimate based on aftermarket and oem prices for equivalent) once you factor in lightweight equipment, brakes, suspension, Inconel sugary bits, etc.

http://www.mclarenautomotive.com/uk/...#/configurator

Things like the Inconel exhaust, carbon fibre bodywork, splitter and diffuser ... there's also carbon body decoration and carbon engine shroud ... no shortage of places for people to take the "upsell" bait and swallow the hook ... more "practical" would be the options like lightweight wheels, ceramic brakes, carbon shell seats (not USA DOT, so that would be a trick or wait a year or two for them to figure out a thorax airbag and get it all approved) track data acquisition integrated with an optional nav and then there's a menu of leather and nice stuff for the cabin.

In short, it's a US$235K "base" with a $300K "sport" or a $350K "luxo-barge" range. It's unlikely to do much more than equal the RS outright performance (give or take some horsepower delta) and it's not in the league of the 2RS which will be the top of the forced induction Porsche 911 offerings and come pretty well equipped at $235K ... maybe $250K give or take carbon fenders (mandatory, I think.)

So, by "falls flat" I mean that at $250K, the car is out-gunned and it has the weakness of any new company trying to overcome the barriers to entering a tough, expensive, competitive market. In a global "great" recession. With Porsche "owning" the market below $200K and Ferrari taking any sucker above $300K. Squeeze! If McLaren brought the 12C in as a "one size fits all, want it or not?" and geared up to sell as many as they could deliver at say $175K base, they'd be attracting the $140K (really $150K) RS and Turbo and GT2 owner as well as showing a helluva strong alternative for the 2RS owner. They'd have only one car to sell, service and support, so they'd be focusing on improving the core platform in the field, not futzing around with options and production line variables as they move out into the random universe of the end user. You might think that the $30K delta between a top shelf Turbo or 3RS to a $175K unknown quantity is a chasm. In my humble, the buyer at that price point that does not exhibit conventional demand curve price sensitivity -- they're looking for compelling value as they perceive it.

I will go to the grave devoted to the 911, but I can still pull back the blinkers to see that if there was a 997 GT2RS sitting next to a McLaren MP4-12C, the McLaren looks like the money and the 911 looks like a religious icon -- on the one hand, the 911 is intimidating and there's all those scary stories of it being so hard to drive and so easy to crash. On the other hand, the McLaren is all technology, it's the new thing, I'll be the first kid on my block, it goes like hell and does all the driving for you.

Then again ...

ADias

I agree with you 1000%. The 991 will have (confirmed) its wheelbase increased by 100mm. It will be longer than the Cayman's wheelbase. It will be the largest WB single increase in the 911 history. The 997.2 is extremely stable - some say too stable. We do not need this. New owners won't tell the diff, but we will. These cars are being neutered.

FFaust

Haven't been following the storyline so... When can we expect to see these on the roads?

Carrera GT

2012 model year. Might be realistic to expect the usual timing to line up as a 2012-2013 arrival in US markets aside from the really early adopter cars.

Carrera GT

Well, I don't know that anything with 450hp is neutered and I still trust Porsche -- call me the optimist -- to deliver a 911 that's invariably incrementally better than "the last one."

I'm sure we all want zero overhang with a "wheel at each corner" and a center of gravity below the axle hubs, but it's just not something that can be delivered in a street car.

Larry Cable

+1, I was talking with another .2 (RS) owner at the weekend, we surmised that this generation may be the pinnacle of GT3 production and that any
next generation car might not be "as good" by current definitions ...

tbd ...

911SLOW

^
All current owners tend to make this assumptions.
993 rs guys did it -last air cooled
996 rs guys did -last without electronics
997 rs guys did - last gt1 block engine

And btw the wheelbase increase might have to do with newer laws relating co2 with cars size or so I read. If the car is as light as the current then the increase is not a bad thing itself. I am more worried about the engine than the chassis myself.

John

Larry Cable

agreed ... on both counts ...

Carrera GT

What's that you say? All current owners tend to make sweeping generalizations about previous model owners? : )

In any case, I'm being quoted out of context ... it's not like I'm a US politician caught with his finger in the pie (in any sense of the metaphor ...) but I feel the need to call a press conference ...

Actual relevant quote from above:
"
I still trust Porsche -- call me the optimist -- to deliver a 911 that's invariably incrementally better than "the last one."
"

Larry Cable

as a US politican might say "define better"

911/Q45

I'm real confused. I was at Pebble Beach on Sat for the personal schmooze session and sat in that car. I'm 6'2" with relatively short legs and a very tall sitting height and I probably had 3-4" of clearance between the top of my head and the headliner. Could the seat cushion have been adjusted at the highest point?

ADias

As a 911 fan I actually do not want a wheel at each corner, certainly not the rear corners.

It may very well be that the next gen (991) may be 'better' than the current one. The question, as it was said, is what does 'better' means? It may be more stable, but in all probability it will lose some of the classic dancing antics of a 911, and that for some of us is unfortunate.

911SLOW

^
And I forgot before to say that the increase will probably help the segment placing of the P cars in anticipation of the baby VW/Porsche small car that is coming soon.

Dias don't worry about dancing with the new 911. I am sure it's nothing we can't fix with zero toe at the rear and some Scandinavian flicks every now and then.

John