GT3 competitors
03-30-2010, 02:43 PM
#31
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Hey Rad
Thanks for the info on Ferrari maintenance. That give me hope that someday I will have a scudaria. I will DIY most maintenance and I have couple questions for you
1. Aftermarket wheels - Does anyone make either 18" or 19" wheel for Scudaria? I saw a 360 challenge spun on the track and damage 3 of the 4 OEM wheels and they are over $3K each!
2. Since all Scudaria come with ceramic rotors - can you use ZR1's ceramic for replacement? Please tell me there is a proper track pads for these ceramic rotors! Any steel rotors options to replace the ceramic rotors?
3. What kind of fuel consumption do you average on the track with Scudaria?
4. How much does your car insurance cost for Sudaria compare with GT3 RS?
I have tendency to plow the field at least once or twice a year but I have an excellent and inexpensive body shop so I should be OK
Thanks for the info on Ferrari maintenance. That give me hope that someday I will have a scudaria. I will DIY most maintenance and I have couple questions for you
1. Aftermarket wheels - Does anyone make either 18" or 19" wheel for Scudaria? I saw a 360 challenge spun on the track and damage 3 of the 4 OEM wheels and they are over $3K each!
2. Since all Scudaria come with ceramic rotors - can you use ZR1's ceramic for replacement? Please tell me there is a proper track pads for these ceramic rotors! Any steel rotors options to replace the ceramic rotors?
3. What kind of fuel consumption do you average on the track with Scudaria?
4. How much does your car insurance cost for Sudaria compare with GT3 RS?
I have tendency to plow the field at least once or twice a year but I have an excellent and inexpensive body shop so I should be OK
03-30-2010, 03:28 PM
#32
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1. I use HRE Competition Wheels on 9.5" and 11.5" x 19. I have been running 295 front and 345 rear A6, and other sizes as well. No 18" on the Scuderia or F430 due to the massive size on the front brakes. OEM Wheels for the Scuderia are under $5,000 if you shop properly (full set price, brand new). I have all the width/offsets from wheels for the 360/430 various flavors of cars
2. The proper track pad for CCB are the ones used by the F430 Challenge car, which are essentially the Gt3 cup version of the F430. Contrary to the GT3 Cup in U.S., the F430 Challenge uses CCB rotors. The funny part is that the pads are Ferrari OEM for the Challenge car, made by Brembo, with Pagid stamping on the pad. The rear pads are Pagid RS19, and the front pads are a harder compound (they are in the 2nd generation for the front pads) also from pagid but not stamped, I think they probably are something similar to the Porsche Green P50 (made by Pagid as well for MotorSports use and CCB).
3. 12 mpg on a good street, at the track it sips fuels like no other car, probably 2 mpg, it burns fuel like crazy, but fuel is cheap. The gas tank holds 25 gallons, more than the Euro GT3 RS.
4. My premium increased by 70% compared to the 997 GT3 RS, but this car is worth 150% the market cost of the 07 RS I had. I guess GT3 report more insurance claims than Scuderias.
The body panels are very strong. A plastic container with 7 gallons of fuel (close to 50 lbs heavy) fell from a stand while I was refueling, and hit my rear quarter panel quite hard, the result was a minor ding fixed by a ding doctor.
The car has more front clearance than my old GT3 RS, despite of running at a lower ride height.
2. The proper track pad for CCB are the ones used by the F430 Challenge car, which are essentially the Gt3 cup version of the F430. Contrary to the GT3 Cup in U.S., the F430 Challenge uses CCB rotors. The funny part is that the pads are Ferrari OEM for the Challenge car, made by Brembo, with Pagid stamping on the pad. The rear pads are Pagid RS19, and the front pads are a harder compound (they are in the 2nd generation for the front pads) also from pagid but not stamped, I think they probably are something similar to the Porsche Green P50 (made by Pagid as well for MotorSports use and CCB).
3. 12 mpg on a good street, at the track it sips fuels like no other car, probably 2 mpg, it burns fuel like crazy, but fuel is cheap. The gas tank holds 25 gallons, more than the Euro GT3 RS.
4. My premium increased by 70% compared to the 997 GT3 RS, but this car is worth 150% the market cost of the 07 RS I had. I guess GT3 report more insurance claims than Scuderias.
The body panels are very strong. A plastic container with 7 gallons of fuel (close to 50 lbs heavy) fell from a stand while I was refueling, and hit my rear quarter panel quite hard, the result was a minor ding fixed by a ding doctor.
The car has more front clearance than my old GT3 RS, despite of running at a lower ride height.
Hey Rad
Thanks for the info on Ferrari maintenance. That give me hope that someday I will have a scudaria. I will DIY most maintenance and I have couple questions for you
1. Aftermarket wheels - Does anyone make either 18" or 19" wheel for Scudaria? I saw a 360 challenge spun on the track and damage 3 of the 4 OEM wheels and they are over $3K each!
2. Since all Scudaria come with ceramic rotors - can you use ZR1's ceramic for replacement? Please tell me there is a proper track pads for these ceramic rotors! Any steel rotors options to replace the ceramic rotors?
3. What kind of fuel consumption do you average on the track with Scudaria?
4. How much does your car insurance cost for Sudaria compare with GT3 RS?
I have tendency to plow the field at least once or twice a year but I have an excellent and inexpensive body shop so I should be OK
Thanks for the info on Ferrari maintenance. That give me hope that someday I will have a scudaria. I will DIY most maintenance and I have couple questions for you
1. Aftermarket wheels - Does anyone make either 18" or 19" wheel for Scudaria? I saw a 360 challenge spun on the track and damage 3 of the 4 OEM wheels and they are over $3K each!
2. Since all Scudaria come with ceramic rotors - can you use ZR1's ceramic for replacement? Please tell me there is a proper track pads for these ceramic rotors! Any steel rotors options to replace the ceramic rotors?
3. What kind of fuel consumption do you average on the track with Scudaria?
4. How much does your car insurance cost for Sudaria compare with GT3 RS?
I have tendency to plow the field at least once or twice a year but I have an excellent and inexpensive body shop so I should be OK
03-30-2010, 05:52 PM
#34
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1. I use HRE Competition Wheels on 9.5" and 11.5" x 19. I have been running 295 front and 345 rear A6, and other sizes as well. No 18" on the Scuderia or F430 due to the massive size on the front brakes. OEM Wheels for the Scuderia are under $5,000 if you shop properly (full set price, brand new). I have all the width/offsets from wheels for the 360/430 various flavors of cars
2. The proper track pad for CCB are the ones used by the F430 Challenge car, which are essentially the Gt3 cup version of the F430. Contrary to the GT3 Cup in U.S., the F430 Challenge uses CCB rotors. The funny part is that the pads are Ferrari OEM for the Challenge car, made by Brembo, with Pagid stamping on the pad. The rear pads are Pagid RS19, and the front pads are a harder compound (they are in the 2nd generation for the front pads) also from pagid but not stamped, I think they probably are something similar to the Porsche Green P50 (made by Pagid as well for MotorSports use and CCB).
3. 12 mpg on a good street, at the track it sips fuels like no other car, probably 2 mpg, it burns fuel like crazy, but fuel is cheap. The gas tank holds 25 gallons, more than the Euro GT3 RS.
4. My premium increased by 70% compared to the 997 GT3 RS, but this car is worth 150% the market cost of the 07 RS I had. I guess GT3 report more insurance claims than Scuderias.
The body panels are very strong. A plastic container with 7 gallons of fuel (close to 50 lbs heavy) fell from a stand while I was refueling, and hit my rear quarter panel quite hard, the result was a minor ding fixed by a ding doctor.
The car has more front clearance than my old GT3 RS, despite of running at a lower ride height.
2. The proper track pad for CCB are the ones used by the F430 Challenge car, which are essentially the Gt3 cup version of the F430. Contrary to the GT3 Cup in U.S., the F430 Challenge uses CCB rotors. The funny part is that the pads are Ferrari OEM for the Challenge car, made by Brembo, with Pagid stamping on the pad. The rear pads are Pagid RS19, and the front pads are a harder compound (they are in the 2nd generation for the front pads) also from pagid but not stamped, I think they probably are something similar to the Porsche Green P50 (made by Pagid as well for MotorSports use and CCB).
3. 12 mpg on a good street, at the track it sips fuels like no other car, probably 2 mpg, it burns fuel like crazy, but fuel is cheap. The gas tank holds 25 gallons, more than the Euro GT3 RS.
4. My premium increased by 70% compared to the 997 GT3 RS, but this car is worth 150% the market cost of the 07 RS I had. I guess GT3 report more insurance claims than Scuderias.
The body panels are very strong. A plastic container with 7 gallons of fuel (close to 50 lbs heavy) fell from a stand while I was refueling, and hit my rear quarter panel quite hard, the result was a minor ding fixed by a ding doctor.
The car has more front clearance than my old GT3 RS, despite of running at a lower ride height.
Looks like owning a Scuderia may be a possibility in the future. I have a feeling I won't track it as much as my RS. Good to hear the body panel is sturdy which will help prevent large dents if I make friends with a tire wall lol. Now can you really use the CCB from ZR1 on a Scud? Looks like Ferrari is using P50 pagid
I don't know why Ferrari engine use so much gas. E92 M3 with V8 average about 4 mpg on the track and my RS get about 7-8 mpg on track. There is something about V8 using large amount of fuel ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w
Your Scuderia is very low! How much lower is your set up compare with OEM?
03-30-2010, 07:39 PM
#35
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Ferrari is one of those eternal itches any true petrolhead longs to scratch one day (Lamborghini to).
Not that I'm in the position to agonize over that but the only thing that I regret is Ferrari dropping the manual box. For track junkies that won't be a problem but the interaction a manual box brings is a must for me. Fancy footwork is to much fun!
A 458 with sequential gearbox, now that would be great :-)
Not that I'm in the position to agonize over that but the only thing that I regret is Ferrari dropping the manual box. For track junkies that won't be a problem but the interaction a manual box brings is a must for me. Fancy footwork is to much fun!
A 458 with sequential gearbox, now that would be great :-)
03-30-2010, 09:29 PM
#36
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That's a picture with the stock suspension (475# and 650# stock springs with a 0.6 wheel rate) and 20mm lower ride height, way too soft suspension for track use. I run stiffer springs now (1100# and 1200#) and stiffer sway bars, and the car is set 30mm below stock ride height front and rear.
03-30-2010, 09:35 PM
#37
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My GT3 RS did around 4mpg at Fontana Roval, the Scuderia around 2 mpg at the same track.
That's a picture with the stock suspension (475# and 650# stock springs with a 0.6 wheel rate) and 20mm lower ride height, way too soft suspension for track use. I run stiffer springs now (1100# and 1200#) and stiffer sway bars, and the car is set 30mm below stock ride height front and rear.
That's a picture with the stock suspension (475# and 650# stock springs with a 0.6 wheel rate) and 20mm lower ride height, way too soft suspension for track use. I run stiffer springs now (1100# and 1200#) and stiffer sway bars, and the car is set 30mm below stock ride height front and rear.
03-30-2010, 09:43 PM
#38
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The 2007 GT3 RS springs are softer than the stock Scuderia, but the motion ratio (wheel rate) much higher, and the sway bars much thicker. Front springs are 225# (with a close to 1.00 wheel rate) and rears between 550# and 600#.
My RS ran slicks and never got to hit the bump stops, the Scuderia hit the bump stops on lower grip Hoosier A6. For the RS I ran the GMG sway bars (loved them, best mod for the stock suspension), stock springs, stock shocks, it felt fine.
Later on I bought the Bilstein B16 damptronic upgrade for the 997 GT2, but never ran the car on them. TCSRacing did, so he should chime in. These B16 were developed by Bilstein (same manufacturer as the OEM PASM) as an upgrade for the 997 GT2, and the 997 GT2 is already pretty good on its handling, so it was a swift and convenient upgrade for my 2007 GT3 RS and its tired shocks. The B16 come with stiffer front springs and tenders all around.
My RS ran slicks and never got to hit the bump stops, the Scuderia hit the bump stops on lower grip Hoosier A6. For the RS I ran the GMG sway bars (loved them, best mod for the stock suspension), stock springs, stock shocks, it felt fine.
Later on I bought the Bilstein B16 damptronic upgrade for the 997 GT2, but never ran the car on them. TCSRacing did, so he should chime in. These B16 were developed by Bilstein (same manufacturer as the OEM PASM) as an upgrade for the 997 GT2, and the 997 GT2 is already pretty good on its handling, so it was a swift and convenient upgrade for my 2007 GT3 RS and its tired shocks. The B16 come with stiffer front springs and tenders all around.
03-31-2010, 01:09 AM
#39
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1. Lambo Gallardo (no. 1 alternative and good performance, reliabiltiy and in budget)
2. Ferrari F360 (have not owned a Ferrari, maintanance and repair comments scared me away)
3. Ferrari 550 (same as #2)
4. Ford GT (just out of budget, they have held value surprisingly well)
5. Ferrari F430 (dead reliable, but out of budget)
6. Aston Martin Vantage 4.7l (beautiful touring car, just lacking some handling and power)
7. Used 997.1 Turbo
8. Used 997.1 GT3
2. Ferrari F360 (have not owned a Ferrari, maintanance and repair comments scared me away)
3. Ferrari 550 (same as #2)
4. Ford GT (just out of budget, they have held value surprisingly well)
5. Ferrari F430 (dead reliable, but out of budget)
6. Aston Martin Vantage 4.7l (beautiful touring car, just lacking some handling and power)
7. Used 997.1 Turbo
8. Used 997.1 GT3
The other thing I seriously considering was getting a Noble or Caterham for the track and an Audi RS4 for the street. I like the RS4 a lot for any car, especially an audi. It doesn't have the technology concerns I have from an M3 or M5 as it is more muscle. And a Caterham would be an absolute hoot on the track.
Ultimately, I caved on the 2010 GT3. I'm very happy with the decision for a track car, but wonder if I should have got a 996 GT3 (or even Cup) and an RS4 or C63 AMG. I think long term the GT3 is the best car for me.
03-31-2010, 01:22 AM
#40
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Ferrari's are beautiful to the eyes but damn way too many eyes on it when u drive around- forget that. Besides I rather park side by side with the porsche crowd(way cooler) at the track and not talk bout how many miles on your car. Mike
03-31-2010, 01:34 AM
#41
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Size is also something to consider. I don't fit in 2 seaters, but I am glad I fit in a GT3.
There is just such a large knowledge base and little to modify to make it last on track where others break down.
It is the only car I considered for the track that can be a daily driver. If I would not track, I would get an Aston or bigger comfyer luxury coupe with big turbo power.
There is just such a large knowledge base and little to modify to make it last on track where others break down.
It is the only car I considered for the track that can be a daily driver. If I would not track, I would get an Aston or bigger comfyer luxury coupe with big turbo power.
03-31-2010, 12:35 PM
#42
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Size is also something to consider. I don't fit in 2 seaters, but I am glad I fit in a GT3.
There is just such a large knowledge base and little to modify to make it last on track where others break down.
It is the only car I considered for the track that can be a daily driver. If I would not track, I would get an Aston or bigger comfyer luxury coupe with big turbo power.
There is just such a large knowledge base and little to modify to make it last on track where others break down.
It is the only car I considered for the track that can be a daily driver. If I would not track, I would get an Aston or bigger comfyer luxury coupe with big turbo power.
I also was super impressed with the front bumper clearance! wayy better than gt3 clearnace!
03-31-2010, 01:14 PM
#43
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Interesting that so many of us have ended up on the same page. I decided to go the dedicated track 7GT3 route and have narrowed my choices down for a street car to a 7TT or a Vantage with a heavy bias towards the 7TT. I'm with Mike in that I think the Italians are a bit too "look at me" for my tastes but I think a lot of that is because we're so familiar with Porsche that we don't really consider them to be exotic any more.
03-31-2010, 02:35 PM
#44
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when I sold my 996GT3 I drove, 360,Z06,viper, turbos and a few others. I could not find the complete car that a GT3 does for me. A F-car would be fun but I need to put 12,000 miles+ a year on a car so the cost to own would be out of this world. Hope to have an RS in a few years.
