Veloce Raptor

Still can't outrun ugly, though!









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

JG 996T

From www.fastlaps.com http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

Nordschleife, Germany (20600 m)
Top 20 Lap Times

PosMake/ModelTimeSpeed (km/h)Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg)Driven by

1. Radical SR8LM 6:48 182 ´ 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55 179 ´05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 ´09 700/1200 Florian Gruber
4. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 (IFC) 171´05 350/600 Michael Duechting
5. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19 (IFC) 169 ´03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
6. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.1 (FC) 168 ´08 600/1536 Motor Trend
7. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24 (IT) 167 ´07 700 / 1200 sportauto
8. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 (IT) 167 ´04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
9. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 (IT) 167 ´05 650/1230 Marc Basseng
10. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 (IT) 167 ´02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
11. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:26.4 (FC) 166 ´08 647 / 1530 Jim Mero
12. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 (FC) 166 ´08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
13. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 (IT) 165 ´03 612 / 1380 Walther Röhrl
14. Porsche 997 GT2 7:31 (FC) 164 ´07 530 / 1440 Walter Röhrl
15. Pagani Zonda F 7:33 164 ´05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
16. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 ´06 806/1456 Marc Basseng
17. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34 163 ´04 806/1418 Sport Auto
18. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 ´09 492/1680 Best Motoring
19. RUF RT12 7:35 163 ´05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
20. Porsche 997 Turbo 7:38 162 ´06 480 / 1585 Porsche

mdrums

Yes I heard that. Last Thursday-Friday I was at the PSDS Masters at Barber and one of the instructors and a student were talking out the ZR1 with Heinricy driving and testing it. They were doing record lap times on STREET tires...not R-Comps.

Also the Michelin Sport R-Comps in 19" and not a true R-Comp tire. This was talked about last year at the 12hr Sebring race at the Porsche tent in a Michelin product training deal. The compound is not the same as the 18" MSC tires and the tread pattern has much wider rain grooves.

If a ZR1 is faster than a GT2 it will be WAY faster than a GT3. Chevy has just done a great job with the Vette. All they need to do is just copy the seats in a Prosche or Ferrari and the package will be complete. I love my Porsche for sure but the current crop of Vettes are impressive. They are faster on the track overall....

10GT3...in tight sections a Boxster will keep up or go faster than a GT3 so that does not mean too much. Overall track, Sebring, The Ring, VIR, Laguna and so on the Vette is faster...sorry!

85Gold

""""One last this to consider if anyone mistakenly thinks that a C6 Z06 is anywhere near the car of even a 997.1 GT3 (much more a GT2 or 997.2 GT3), is to look at the SCCA. At the end of last year, the SCCA made a change to allow both the C5 Z06 and 500hp/8.3l Vipers to run in SS (Super Stock) in Solo competition. At the same time the Z06 and Vipers were requested to be allowed to run in stock classes, the 997 GT3 was also requested to compete in the same classes. These cars were previously considered too fast for stock classes. What changed was in 2008 they allowed the 996 GT3 to compete in SS against the more power C5 Z06 and C6 Z51. The 996 GT3 won nationals its first year it was allowed to compete. The Viper and newer Z06 were were moved in due to what was perceived as an unfair advantage of the 996 GT3 by the Solo Executive Committee (SEC)."""

History, I was there. SCCA Solo Nationals. My 2005 GT3

2005 http://www.scca.org/documents/result...-nationals.pdf
1st C5 ZO6 Erik S.
2nd 2005 GT3 Ian Stewart

2006
Super Stock Drivers: 61 Trophies: 16
T 1 199 Matthew Braun 2005 Lotus Elise Ylw Hoosier 53.725(1) 51.239 50.776 99.358
[99] Northville, MI PowerPlug Detroit Re 49.489 49.629 48.582
T 2 193 Ian Stewart 2005 Porsche 911 GT3 Bl Hoosier 54.250(1) 51.256 51.178 99.676
[93] Orlando, FL www.maitlandimports.com Central Fl 48.498 50.350(1) 49.007


2007 http://www.scca.org/documents/result...ts%2011.14.pdf
1st 2005 GT3 Ian Stewart Finally

Ian also won the Pro Solo in 2007


Peter

Nugget

Maybe just because Strelnieks is running in SM2 now with that crazy RX7.

I don't care what 10GT3 says, I sure think that a Z06 is "near the car" compared to a 997 GT3 is and I don't think that's a mistaken impression. They're great cars.

I just don't think it's smart to treat autocross results as a general indicator. Autocross demands a very specific type of handling and adjustability that doesn't necessarily translate into general or road course performance.

Veloce Raptor

Agreed. A well-driven C6 Z06 and a well-driven 997 GT3 would be pretty evenly matched on most road courses. However, this thread is about the ZR1, which frankly would be more than up to overwhelming the GT3, IMO....









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

85Gold

I agree AutoX and Road Course are 2 different things. Just correcting some misinformation that was posted. 996GT3 > C5 ZO6 now the C6 ZO6 is another ball game.

Peter

80shilling

I came from a ZO6 to my GT2.. I have spent the last 20 years+ driving almost every imaginable type of Car around Laguna Seca and the ZR-1 is scary fast in the hands of the right driver.. Almost 4 seconds a lap faster than the 997 GT3..

A 1:35.8 (admittedly on a completely clear track and in the hands of Randy Pobst, one of the best Pro Drivers out there) is screamingly quick for a stock Car.

4. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.8 135 ´08 647 / 1530 Motortrend
5. Porsche 997 Turbo facelift 1:37.8 133 ´09 500 / 1570 C&D
6. Porsche 997 GT3 1:39.517 130 ´06 415 / 1395 Motortrend

Impressive stuff... But I still prefer a Porsche over a 'Vette...

NJ-GT

The ZR1 is in a totally different league compared to a GT3, GT3 RS or GT2.

ZR1 has been tested with PS2. Put that car on the same MPSC that the GT3 and GT2 use, and it will be even faster.

Vette Seats? are the Porsche seats any good? Last time I checked, most GT3 owners were switching seats for track use, except the newer cars with the GT2 carbon seats.

There are plenty of aftermarket seats available for the Corvettes, and the cost to replace CCB rotors for the ZR-1 is affordable.

Antonov

I would like to see how the new pdk turbo on PSC does at the Nordschleife. It was second slower than the ZR1 at laguna on much slower tires RE050 vs. PS2's.

NJ-GT

RE-050A N-spec are actually faster than PS2 N-spec in dry conditions. I have tested them against Hoosier A6 and V710, and the PS2 N-spec have lower grip.

The PS2 tires in the ZR-1 have more grip than the N-spec, they were developed by Michelin specifically for the ZR1, and they used a softer compound than the Porsche PS2 N-spec. Somewhere I read that the compound is from the racing spec Michelin Pilot Sport Cups using the PS2 mold.

Laguna Seca lap times actually translate quite well to Nurburgring lap times using a factor of 4.66. So, the 2010 911 Turbo PDK should be able to lap the Ring in 7:35 running on RE-050A. With the N-spec MPSC it should drop another 4 secs, getting in the 997 GT2 lap time range, and definitely improving the 2010 GT3 and 2010 GT3 RS lap times at the Ring.

The 2010 Turbo is pretty impressive. 11 flat on the 1/4 mile, sub 3 secs to 60mph, sub 7 secs 0-100mph, and lighter than any previous AWD 911 Turbo (if you pick the right options).

russo

Interesting to see the lopsided comparisons of a 400+ hp car against a car with double displacement and more than 200 hp.

Antonov

Doesn't the ZR1 use PS2 N-spec? Confused. I thought the PS2 N-spec are grippier/faster than the RE050A N-spec...

Would love to see what a 997.2 GT2 RS PDK on PSC's can do.

BBTurbo

So........... my experience is a bit different. I have a ZR1, a 2010 GT3 and I had a 2007 TT as well as a 2008 Z06. I've had ll 4 on the track and I drove multiple ZR1's and Z06's back to back at Spring Mountain. The ZR1 is in all ways a better track car than the Z06. Now if you consider the fact that you can own 2 Z06's for the price of one ZR1, I can't say that the ZR1 is that much better. Not sure what happened to the ZR1 you drove, but I don't think your experience is typical. Granted, the ZR1 steering is still numb compared to the GT3 or TT, but it is better than a Z06. The Magnetic Ride suspension hugs the track better and the ZR1 has significantly more grip, as well as explosive acceleration. Granted with 640 supercharged HP, if you stomp on it, you can spin the wheels at 100mph, in 3rd. It takes some getting used too, but once you get the feel, the car is very easy to rotate with throttle steer and it carries so much torque that very little shifting is required. The ZR1 is a very, very competent on the track. The Z06 is also rock solid. It was able to pretty much keep up in multiple corner segments, but as soon as you hit the straight the ZR1 is much faster. Put the GT3, a ZR1 and the new Turbo S on a track like Leguna Seca or even Watkin's Glen and they would all be very close in lap times.

Now the interior is another story. I can't even try to defend it. Very low rent for a $110k car.

The ZR1 will be sold when my Turbo S shows up in May, so you know which brand won out with me, but I just wanted to chime in with my personal experience.

GTEE3

I saw a Z06 break into 3 pieces after a crash in the Kink at Rd America...and look inside the doors of these cars-nothing there...I have also seen plastic panels fly off of these cars at the track...no thanks, I won't do student instruction in them.