Car Magazine N'ring Comparison
09-21-2009, 11:33 PM
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Car Magazine N'ring Comparison
Does anyone have scans or a link to this full article? I am very interested in the comparison article between the GTR and GT3. My dad just traded his 997tt in on a white 997.2 GT3 and I am looking for as many articles on the car as possible. From the brief drive I had I can say I am very very impressed. I had driven the 997tt extensively and the GT3 is just so much more fun. The noise is something else entirely I will post a better review and pics once the car is broken in and I've had more time in it. The link to the article I am talking about is posted below but it is only a preview.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Magazin...-CAR-Magazine/
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Magazin...-CAR-Magazine/
09-21-2009, 11:41 PM
#2
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Don't have the article with me, but the GT3 beat the 480hp transformer-mobile. Guess that 7:27 'Ring time for the Nissan was BS...
09-23-2009, 11:33 AM
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09-23-2009, 12:18 PM
#8
It's a jumble of comparisons (the 2010 GTR vs the 2009 Turbo ... why not the 2010 with PDK and 500hp?) I guess they can't get the cars. The '10 GT3 is faster than the '10 GTR, good lord, the RS will be devastating. The GT3 came with comfort seats (weighty) and steel rotors, so it still had the PCCBs up it's sleeve and could have had the shell seats to shed 50lbs or so. Then there's the GTR Spec V -- an overpriced understatement with $50K brakes that catch fire after a handful of (not the 'ring) laps?! No wonder Nissan has decided to no longer publish 'ring times.
09-23-2009, 02:12 PM
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Porsche is now under control of VW and we know Mr. Ferdinand Piech is the "Alpha" male !
so Mr. Ferdinand Piech should sent a letter to Mr. Carlos Ghosn, officially challenge Nissan to a Race in the Nurburgring.
Porsche and Nissan should both split the cost of renting Nurburgring for 3 days, just in case one day is not enough due to weather.
Porsche and Nissan also should split the cost of independent institution to make sure it will be a FAIR race.
some institution like Deloite Touche or Price WaterHouse Cooper or Ernst and Young.
The rule will be like this:
a Nissan representative will travel with the Independent Consultant to a Porsche dealer which have Brand New GT3 mk2 ready on it's showroom floor. That GT3 mk2 might already been reserved for a customer, but than the Independent Consultant,
would only need to call Porsche HQ to make that dealer release the car to be bought by Nissan representative,
and of course Porsche HQ will give compensation to that dealer and to the customer who is forced to wait a bit longer for his replacement car. That way the car will be randomly picked and from showroom stock condition, so no cheating/secret tuning can be done.
in the same time Porsche representative should also do the same procedure as the above to buy the GT-R from any random Nissan dealer, accompanied by independent consultant of course.
Than both car would be under Quarantine by the independent consultant until Race Day.
when Race day arrive, both car will be delivered to their respective team for further tuning/setting/inspection of the suspension.
but NO ENGINE tuning is allowed, and no Engine checking is allowed too, cause especially Nissan can pretend they are
checking the OBD while instead they download a secret over boost program.
During all this tuning an independent consultant and each factory representative will be watching carefully to make sure
nobody cheat !
after that, both car will go first to Dyno Test just to make sure again that their engine is within the official spec.
and to make it fair, both car should be using the same tyre they equiped from the showroom floor.
I almost forget to add that they also should use the same gasoline/octane spec...
than, both car will be driven in as close time as possible so the weather/track condition will be as similar as possible.
the driver will be Walter Rohrl or any other Porsche best factory driver,
and for Nissan it will be Toshio Suzuki or any other Nissan best factory driver.
The first and second day will be independence timing day,
and if by third day, both driver feel they want to do a duel, than they will race like real race.
and to make it fair it will be a two part race, where in the first race, the Nissan will start from the left lane, and Porsche on right lane,
and on the second race, vice versa !
regarding how many laps for each race... well let's Walter and Suzuki decide for themselves how many round they want to have...
I am sure this will, once and for all silent the controversy and doubt !
FYI,Naturally My money is with Walter Rohrl and GT3 Mk2, of course...
and all the procedure above can be repeated for GTR spec V vs GT3 RS Mk2 or GT2
ok, now did anybody here know, Mr. Ferdinand Piech Mobile Phone or e-mail address ?
so Mr. Ferdinand Piech should sent a letter to Mr. Carlos Ghosn, officially challenge Nissan to a Race in the Nurburgring.
Porsche and Nissan should both split the cost of renting Nurburgring for 3 days, just in case one day is not enough due to weather.
Porsche and Nissan also should split the cost of independent institution to make sure it will be a FAIR race.
some institution like Deloite Touche or Price WaterHouse Cooper or Ernst and Young.
The rule will be like this:
a Nissan representative will travel with the Independent Consultant to a Porsche dealer which have Brand New GT3 mk2 ready on it's showroom floor. That GT3 mk2 might already been reserved for a customer, but than the Independent Consultant,
would only need to call Porsche HQ to make that dealer release the car to be bought by Nissan representative,
and of course Porsche HQ will give compensation to that dealer and to the customer who is forced to wait a bit longer for his replacement car. That way the car will be randomly picked and from showroom stock condition, so no cheating/secret tuning can be done.
in the same time Porsche representative should also do the same procedure as the above to buy the GT-R from any random Nissan dealer, accompanied by independent consultant of course.
Than both car would be under Quarantine by the independent consultant until Race Day.
when Race day arrive, both car will be delivered to their respective team for further tuning/setting/inspection of the suspension.
but NO ENGINE tuning is allowed, and no Engine checking is allowed too, cause especially Nissan can pretend they are
checking the OBD while instead they download a secret over boost program.
During all this tuning an independent consultant and each factory representative will be watching carefully to make sure
nobody cheat !
after that, both car will go first to Dyno Test just to make sure again that their engine is within the official spec.
and to make it fair, both car should be using the same tyre they equiped from the showroom floor.
I almost forget to add that they also should use the same gasoline/octane spec...
than, both car will be driven in as close time as possible so the weather/track condition will be as similar as possible.
the driver will be Walter Rohrl or any other Porsche best factory driver,
and for Nissan it will be Toshio Suzuki or any other Nissan best factory driver.
The first and second day will be independence timing day,
and if by third day, both driver feel they want to do a duel, than they will race like real race.
and to make it fair it will be a two part race, where in the first race, the Nissan will start from the left lane, and Porsche on right lane,
and on the second race, vice versa !
regarding how many laps for each race... well let's Walter and Suzuki decide for themselves how many round they want to have...
I am sure this will, once and for all silent the controversy and doubt !
FYI,Naturally My money is with Walter Rohrl and GT3 Mk2, of course...
and all the procedure above can be repeated for GTR spec V vs GT3 RS Mk2 or GT2
ok, now did anybody here know, Mr. Ferdinand Piech Mobile Phone or e-mail address ?
Last edited by prosper; 09-23-2009 at 02:18 PM. Reason: forget about the gasoline spec
09-23-2009, 03:06 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I think as long as the engine is not modified, how much power the engine makes shouldn't matter.. as I'd be happy to buy a car that's under-rated by the manufacturer. (I am sure most here would not complain if their found out that their GT3 are making 30hps more than claimed..)
Yeah, it would be an interesting test!!
Yeah, it would be an interesting test!!
09-23-2009, 03:09 PM
#11
Porsche is now under control of VW and we know Mr. Ferdinand Piech is the "Alpha" male !
so Mr. Ferdinand Piech should sent a letter to Mr. Carlos Ghosn, officially challenge Nissan to a Race in the Nurburgring.
Porsche and Nissan should both split the cost of renting Nurburgring for 3 days, just in case one day is not enough due to weather.
Porsche and Nissan also should split the cost of independent institution to make sure it will be a FAIR race.
some institution like Deloite Touche or Price WaterHouse Cooper or Ernst and Young.
The rule will be like this:
a Nissan representative will travel with the Independent Consultant to a Porsche dealer which have Brand New GT3 mk2 ready on it's showroom floor. That GT3 mk2 might already been reserved for a customer, but than the Independent Consultant,
would only need to call Porsche HQ to make that dealer release the car to be bought by Nissan representative,
and of course Porsche HQ will give compensation to that dealer and to the customer who is forced to wait a bit longer for his replacement car. That way the car will be randomly picked and from showroom stock condition, so no cheating/secret tuning can be done.
in the same time Porsche representative should also do the same procedure as the above to buy the GT-R from any random Nissan dealer, accompanied by independent consultant of course.
Than both car would be under Quarantine by the independent consultant until Race Day.
when Race day arrive, both car will be delivered to their respective team for further tuning/setting/inspection of the suspension.
but NO ENGINE tuning is allowed, and no Engine checking is allowed too, cause especially Nissan can pretend they are
checking the OBD while instead they download a secret over boost program.
During all this tuning an independent consultant and each factory representative will be watching carefully to make sure
nobody cheat !
after that, both car will go first to Dyno Test just to make sure again that their engine is within the official spec.
and to make it fair, both car should be using the same tyre they equiped from the showroom floor.
I almost forget to add that they also should use the same gasoline/octane spec...
than, both car will be driven in as close time as possible so the weather/track condition will be as similar as possible.
the driver will be Walter Rohrl or any other Porsche best factory driver,
and for Nissan it will be Toshio Suzuki or any other Nissan best factory driver.
The first and second day will be independence timing day,
and if by third day, both driver feel they want to do a duel, than they will race like real race.
and to make it fair it will be a two part race, where in the first race, the Nissan will start from the left lane, and Porsche on right lane,
and on the second race, vice versa !
regarding how many laps for each race... well let's Walter and Suzuki decide for themselves how many round they want to have...
I am sure this will, once and for all silent the controversy and doubt !
FYI,Naturally My money is with Walter Rohrl and GT3 Mk2, of course...
and all the procedure above can be repeated for GTR spec V vs GT3 RS Mk2 or GT2
ok, now did anybody here know, Mr. Ferdinand Piech Mobile Phone or e-mail address ?
so Mr. Ferdinand Piech should sent a letter to Mr. Carlos Ghosn, officially challenge Nissan to a Race in the Nurburgring.
Porsche and Nissan should both split the cost of renting Nurburgring for 3 days, just in case one day is not enough due to weather.
Porsche and Nissan also should split the cost of independent institution to make sure it will be a FAIR race.
some institution like Deloite Touche or Price WaterHouse Cooper or Ernst and Young.
The rule will be like this:
a Nissan representative will travel with the Independent Consultant to a Porsche dealer which have Brand New GT3 mk2 ready on it's showroom floor. That GT3 mk2 might already been reserved for a customer, but than the Independent Consultant,
would only need to call Porsche HQ to make that dealer release the car to be bought by Nissan representative,
and of course Porsche HQ will give compensation to that dealer and to the customer who is forced to wait a bit longer for his replacement car. That way the car will be randomly picked and from showroom stock condition, so no cheating/secret tuning can be done.
in the same time Porsche representative should also do the same procedure as the above to buy the GT-R from any random Nissan dealer, accompanied by independent consultant of course.
Than both car would be under Quarantine by the independent consultant until Race Day.
when Race day arrive, both car will be delivered to their respective team for further tuning/setting/inspection of the suspension.
but NO ENGINE tuning is allowed, and no Engine checking is allowed too, cause especially Nissan can pretend they are
checking the OBD while instead they download a secret over boost program.
During all this tuning an independent consultant and each factory representative will be watching carefully to make sure
nobody cheat !
after that, both car will go first to Dyno Test just to make sure again that their engine is within the official spec.
and to make it fair, both car should be using the same tyre they equiped from the showroom floor.
I almost forget to add that they also should use the same gasoline/octane spec...
than, both car will be driven in as close time as possible so the weather/track condition will be as similar as possible.
the driver will be Walter Rohrl or any other Porsche best factory driver,
and for Nissan it will be Toshio Suzuki or any other Nissan best factory driver.
The first and second day will be independence timing day,
and if by third day, both driver feel they want to do a duel, than they will race like real race.
and to make it fair it will be a two part race, where in the first race, the Nissan will start from the left lane, and Porsche on right lane,
and on the second race, vice versa !
regarding how many laps for each race... well let's Walter and Suzuki decide for themselves how many round they want to have...
I am sure this will, once and for all silent the controversy and doubt !
FYI,Naturally My money is with Walter Rohrl and GT3 Mk2, of course...
and all the procedure above can be repeated for GTR spec V vs GT3 RS Mk2 or GT2
ok, now did anybody here know, Mr. Ferdinand Piech Mobile Phone or e-mail address ?
It wasn't that long ago that you'd see all these brands in various teams all on the same grid and the outcome of the race was interesting. What's happening to factory racing teams and the traditional "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"?
09-23-2009, 03:14 PM
#12
If the RS is any faster at all. Sport Auto's Horst Von Saurma got the same 7:47 time out of both the 997.1 GT3 and 997.1 GT3 RS. He recently ran a 7:40 in a 997.2 GT3, exactly the same as porsche's claims. Have you noticed Porsche has not quoted a ring time yet? Hmm...
09-23-2009, 04:29 PM
#13
If the RS is any faster at all. Sport Auto's Horst Von Saurma got the same 7:47 time out of both the 997.1 GT3 and 997.1 GT3 RS. He recently ran a 7:40 in a 997.2 GT3, exactly the same as porsche's claims. Have you noticed Porsche has not quoted a ring time yet? Hmm...
Subjectively, if a driver can't extract anything from the 997.1 RS over the 997.1 GT3 in terms of lap times, if it wasn't Von Saurma, I'd question the ability of the driver, so I question the circumstances of the lap comparison -- for starters, it's rare to find these laps driven without traffic on the ring. In the .3, the RS sports a wider rear track and different geometry with more wing, and the lwf. That's surely worth a few hundredths of a second out of a 90 second lap. What it would mean over the course of the 'ring, I have no idea (nor the interest to Google the numerous comparisons in 2007 of the two cars.)
09-23-2009, 04:48 PM
#14
You might want to rethink that comparison on several counts: the 997.2 GT3 will be no match for the RS. The RS has more power and torque, shorter final drive, more aero, wider front contact, wider front and rear track. It's not just the same engine with a lightweight flywheel.
Subjectively, if a driver can't extract anything from the 997.1 RS over the 997.1 GT3 in terms of lap times, if it wasn't Von Saurma, I'd question the ability of the driver, so I question the circumstances of the lap comparison -- for starters, it's rare to find these laps driven without traffic on the ring. In the .3, the RS sports a wider rear track and different geometry with more wing, and the lwf. That's surely worth a few hundredths of a second out of a 90 second lap. What it would mean over the course of the 'ring, I have no idea (nor the interest to Google the numerous comparisons in 2007 of the two cars.)
Subjectively, if a driver can't extract anything from the 997.1 RS over the 997.1 GT3 in terms of lap times, if it wasn't Von Saurma, I'd question the ability of the driver, so I question the circumstances of the lap comparison -- for starters, it's rare to find these laps driven without traffic on the ring. In the .3, the RS sports a wider rear track and different geometry with more wing, and the lwf. That's surely worth a few hundredths of a second out of a 90 second lap. What it would mean over the course of the 'ring, I have no idea (nor the interest to Google the numerous comparisons in 2007 of the two cars.)
09-23-2009, 05:06 PM
#15
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Rennlist Member
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That should put the RS in the 7:36 range, quite fast for a fairly underpowered car compared to the GTR, ZR1, Viper ACR, GT2, LP560/4, Scuderia. Pretty much the GT3 RS would be crushing all these cars where it matters, in the turns. Being 4 secs behind the Super fast 997 GT2 tells a lot of good things about the new GT3 RS.