What are you getting for Money Factors?
09-20-2009, 06:26 PM
#1
What are you getting for Money Factors?
I almost pulled the trigger on a gt3 2010 yesterday and when I went through the lease terms I noticed that although I had gotten a discount on the car, they had pushed up the MF to 350 and later discovered that the porsche minimum is 310
It made a significant difference in total costs.
What are you folks who are leasing getting for a MF?
This was a for a 4 year lease (which has the terrible residual of 47%.) I am tempted to just buy the car.
Thanks in advance.
Greg
It made a significant difference in total costs.
What are you folks who are leasing getting for a MF?
This was a for a 4 year lease (which has the terrible residual of 47%.) I am tempted to just buy the car.
Thanks in advance.
Greg
09-20-2009, 09:56 PM
#3
09-21-2009, 02:06 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
I also was quoted .0031, works out to 7.44% annually, and 46% residual on 4 year lease.
09-21-2009, 02:47 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
What's with the residuals? You might be able to do better with third party leasing.
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
#7
You have to wait until spring to find out if they still have it available. At the rate cars are currently driving away from dealer lots (most dealers are short on inventory), I would expect it to expire by the end of the year.
I really don't understand leasing this car? The economics simply don't make sense. With the 996, a $110K car depreciated to about $70K in 4 years. With the leasing deals I am seeing, you are about $20K worse that buying.
To give you an idea with the example given above, finance the car for 5 years for just the $128,500 base would be $2605.52/mo. For the 4 year lease you pay $97K and get nothing at the end. With the buy at 5 years, you pay $156K and at the end of 5 years have a car that should still be worth $75-80K. No question that you are far better off buying. Also consider that for less than the cost of this lease, you could own a 997.1 GT3 or a new 997.2 S for the same. Since you are looking at a total price lease, I am assuming you don't have any money to put down and hence looking for the lowest payment. I would recommend to consider instread a 6 year note, just sell the car early and get more money out of it.
I am buying mine, but won't decide how much I will put down until December when my car comes in. I will have $5K in before then from desposits and I am doing an in-and-out on my old Carrera. If the 1.9% is still available, I probabaly won't put a lot more down. Otherwise, I will put another $30-40K down. I will probably turn mine in 1.5 to 2 years to beat the depreciation hit and get another one.
I really don't understand leasing this car? The economics simply don't make sense. With the 996, a $110K car depreciated to about $70K in 4 years. With the leasing deals I am seeing, you are about $20K worse that buying.
To give you an idea with the example given above, finance the car for 5 years for just the $128,500 base would be $2605.52/mo. For the 4 year lease you pay $97K and get nothing at the end. With the buy at 5 years, you pay $156K and at the end of 5 years have a car that should still be worth $75-80K. No question that you are far better off buying. Also consider that for less than the cost of this lease, you could own a 997.1 GT3 or a new 997.2 S for the same. Since you are looking at a total price lease, I am assuming you don't have any money to put down and hence looking for the lowest payment. I would recommend to consider instread a 6 year note, just sell the car early and get more money out of it.
I am buying mine, but won't decide how much I will put down until December when my car comes in. I will have $5K in before then from desposits and I am doing an in-and-out on my old Carrera. If the 1.9% is still available, I probabaly won't put a lot more down. Otherwise, I will put another $30-40K down. I will probably turn mine in 1.5 to 2 years to beat the depreciation hit and get another one.
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09-21-2009, 03:52 PM
#8
GT3 player par excellence
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AFAIK, 1.9% was never available on GTx cars. certainly not on CGT... yes, i asked ;-)
09-21-2009, 04:21 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Due to some fanatical Federal racketeering, by the time the car arrives I probably have no credit or cash left, so if anyone here likes a white / red no option RS, your car should be here around April....
09-21-2009, 05:49 PM
#10
You have to wait until spring to find out if they still have it available. At the rate cars are currently driving away from dealer lots (most dealers are short on inventory), I would expect it to expire by the end of the year.
I really don't understand leasing this car? The economics simply don't make sense. With the 996, a $110K car depreciated to about $70K in 4 years. With the leasing deals I am seeing, you are about $20K worse that buying.
To give you an idea with the example given above, finance the car for 5 years for just the $128,500 base would be $2605.52/mo. For the 4 year lease you pay $97K and get nothing at the end. With the buy at 5 years, you pay $156K and at the end of 5 years have a car that should still be worth $75-80K. No question that you are far better off buying. Also consider that for less than the cost of this lease, you could own a 997.1 GT3 or a new 997.2 S for the same. Since you are looking at a total price lease, I am assuming you don't have any money to put down and hence looking for the lowest payment. I would recommend to consider instread a 6 year note, just sell the car early and get more money out of it.
I am buying mine, but won't decide how much I will put down until December when my car comes in. I will have $5K in before then from desposits and I am doing an in-and-out on my old Carrera. If the 1.9% is still available, I probabaly won't put a lot more down. Otherwise, I will put another $30-40K down. I will probably turn mine in 1.5 to 2 years to beat the depreciation hit and get another one.
I really don't understand leasing this car? The economics simply don't make sense. With the 996, a $110K car depreciated to about $70K in 4 years. With the leasing deals I am seeing, you are about $20K worse that buying.
To give you an idea with the example given above, finance the car for 5 years for just the $128,500 base would be $2605.52/mo. For the 4 year lease you pay $97K and get nothing at the end. With the buy at 5 years, you pay $156K and at the end of 5 years have a car that should still be worth $75-80K. No question that you are far better off buying. Also consider that for less than the cost of this lease, you could own a 997.1 GT3 or a new 997.2 S for the same. Since you are looking at a total price lease, I am assuming you don't have any money to put down and hence looking for the lowest payment. I would recommend to consider instread a 6 year note, just sell the car early and get more money out of it.
I am buying mine, but won't decide how much I will put down until December when my car comes in. I will have $5K in before then from desposits and I am doing an in-and-out on my old Carrera. If the 1.9% is still available, I probabaly won't put a lot more down. Otherwise, I will put another $30-40K down. I will probably turn mine in 1.5 to 2 years to beat the depreciation hit and get another one.
If you attribute even a modest return on working capital, the cost of opportunity swings the decision in favor of the lease.
If you can't negotiate zero out-of-pocket "drive off" (just pay the first month in advance) then go to another dealer. As for the discount on the current in stock (no engine mount) GT3's, I'd say the market is closer to $10K discounts for good customers.
09-21-2009, 07:09 PM
#11
"Leave vs borrow vs buy" is a pretty well-worn topic. I think if you run actual numbers including in my case California debt relief tax (9.25% in this county) then take a more realistic look at depreciation and resale values, it's a lot closer numbers. Even with the paltry residual (Porsche Financial has an upper limit on the dollar amount of residuals which comes into play on any car MSRP over about $120K +/-) you still end up with no out-of-pocket, sales tax monthly instead of all at once and the net cost per month is close enough to call it equal.
If you attribute even a modest return on working capital, the cost of opportunity swings the decision in favor of the lease.
If you can't negotiate zero out-of-pocket "drive off" (just pay the first month in advance) then go to another dealer. As for the discount on the current in stock (no engine mount) GT3's, I'd say the market is closer to $10K discounts for good customers.
If you attribute even a modest return on working capital, the cost of opportunity swings the decision in favor of the lease.
If you can't negotiate zero out-of-pocket "drive off" (just pay the first month in advance) then go to another dealer. As for the discount on the current in stock (no engine mount) GT3's, I'd say the market is closer to $10K discounts for good customers.
09-21-2009, 08:26 PM
#12
If the only thing you need is an extra $5-8K off the deal, just sell your current car privately instead of taking the wholesale trade-in number. If you need the name of a good dealer in the Bay Area, I can give you my two cents'.
Slow sales are no reflection on the car, I think it's just the economy, though perhaps compounded by the number of GT3 buyers already having 996 or 997.1 cars and the performance delta does not necessarily justify the update cost.
I imagine dealers get offers and tire kickers aplenty but with dismal trade-in valuations, even motivated buyers are facing a hefty sum to move from their current Porsche/Audi/BMW/Benz.
If you've bought a couple of 911's in recent years and your dealer wants to close out September with one less '10 GT3 on their books, I think an outright purchase would bring that range of discount or significant padding to the trade-in.
09-21-2009, 10:12 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Please not the lease vs buy debate again! If you factor in ALL the variables, it's a pay me now or pay me the same amount later decision. The added advantage of not laying out sales taxes and a "put" on the minimum value of the car in the future tip the scales in favor of leasing IMHO.
Leasing companies are being a bit conservative now to ensure they're not upside down in the car too long - positive side to this is you can generally trade out of a PFS lease after 2 years without taking a bath
Here's a secret advantage to leasing - if you do trade your car to a dealer after, let's say 2 years, you don't have to pay the remaining sales tax.
Chris
Leasing companies are being a bit conservative now to ensure they're not upside down in the car too long - positive side to this is you can generally trade out of a PFS lease after 2 years without taking a bath
Here's a secret advantage to leasing - if you do trade your car to a dealer after, let's say 2 years, you don't have to pay the remaining sales tax.
Chris
09-21-2009, 10:36 PM
#14
crispenigl mentioned $4K and I suggested "closer to $10K." An earnest buyer with a history of buying new Porsches -- a "good customer" -- and a dealer with one or two unsold cars already 30 - 45 days languishing in their showroom should see these cars selling in that range.
If the only thing you need is an extra $5-8K off the deal, just sell your current car privately instead of taking the wholesale trade-in number. If you need the name of a good dealer in the Bay Area, I can give you my two cents'.
Slow sales are no reflection on the car, I think it's just the economy, though perhaps compounded by the number of GT3 buyers already having 996 or 997.1 cars and the performance delta does not necessarily justify the update cost.
I imagine dealers get offers and tire kickers aplenty but with dismal trade-in valuations, even motivated buyers are facing a hefty sum to move from their current Porsche/Audi/BMW/Benz.
If you've bought a couple of 911's in recent years and your dealer wants to close out September with one less '10 GT3 on their books, I think an outright purchase would bring that range of discount or significant padding to the trade-in.
If the only thing you need is an extra $5-8K off the deal, just sell your current car privately instead of taking the wholesale trade-in number. If you need the name of a good dealer in the Bay Area, I can give you my two cents'.
Slow sales are no reflection on the car, I think it's just the economy, though perhaps compounded by the number of GT3 buyers already having 996 or 997.1 cars and the performance delta does not necessarily justify the update cost.
I imagine dealers get offers and tire kickers aplenty but with dismal trade-in valuations, even motivated buyers are facing a hefty sum to move from their current Porsche/Audi/BMW/Benz.
If you've bought a couple of 911's in recent years and your dealer wants to close out September with one less '10 GT3 on their books, I think an outright purchase would bring that range of discount or significant padding to the trade-in.
09-22-2009, 12:10 AM
#15
I have never leased a car but learned a valuable lesson when someone broad-sided my new (920 miles) BMW: I was stuck with a 'frame-damage' carfax which is the kiss of death for resale or trade-in. Had the car been leased, it would have been BMW's problem when I handed back the keys... I can't imagine the hit on resale for a new GT3 with frame-damage history, should you be that unlucky. It will certainly play into my lease/purchase decision next time!