Hoosier R6 235/35/19, 315/30/19, Volk feedback...
06-23-2009, 11:57 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Hoosier R6 235/35/19, 315/30/19, Volk feedback...
- well the car had its virgin 19" hoosier day at Mosport yesterday
- it is about an 80km drive to the track (pretty smooth roads, sunny day) so i drove the car to the track with virgin Hoosiers (no issue at all)
- in terms of fit, i decided to remove the rear 5mm spacer to make sure there wouldn't be the chance of rubbing (inside clearance wasn't a problem without the spacer and i didn't want to try it with the spacer and then trackside have to remove them if there was rubbing on the rear fender)
- the front 235/35 hoosier is a good 3/4 inch wider than the OE cup tire but running -2.7 front camber didn't think it would be an issue so i was even so bold to see if i could relocate the rear 5mm spacer to the front and get the clearance - after mounting the spacer and the tire it wasn't going to work (unless i really pulled the fender) so i removed the spacer and remounted - it was close (likely wouldn't have been an issue) but i decided to just grab a wooden hammer and just slightly up and down the fender lever the fender away from the tire
- also, my camber is set up with shims only so the caster has the wheel quite forward in the wheel well (thought this was going to be an issue but again i was surprised that everything worked on the track without rubbing - i think the very slight fender "pull" took all of 3 minutes did the job and it is very easy to do
- think as reported by others, you have to keep hoosiers at 40 and below (i felt even at 40 they didn't have the grip they did in the high 30s - i tried to keep the fronts 36 to 38 and the rears at 37 to 40 but i was having so much fun some sessions were longer than others so i was never really sure were the tires were (last session i know the tires went up 12 psi as i was starting them 26/27 and the first two laps you could feel the tires needed air in them
- since the hoosier 235 is more like a 255 (maybe even bigger) it was kind of a good experiment to see what upsizing the front (+2) and upsizing the rear (+1) would do to the car
- my first conclusion is that the car is far better / more stable under braking
- it has been reported by virtually every gt3 driver i have met that braking into turn #8 at mosport (after the hill above 240kph) results in a really wiggly rear end
i have done a few things to try and fix this problem:
- new LSD (paul guard) - no effect
- r888s - no effect
- wevo engine mounts, tarret toe arms, hoosiers, tiny bit more rear toe in (2mm per side)
- some combo of above has fixed most of the issue (car was much more planted yesterday)
car performance with the hoosiers
- car was easy to drive fast, cornering speeds are clearly faster than with the OE tires (no kidding) and with the r888s
- i previously posted that a pro diver drove my car and mentioned it was to loose for him and that he would be faster with it tighter
- i didn't make any changes as at that time my rear tires were shot and i wanted to wait until i had new tires to see if anything changed
My setup
-2.7f, 1mm toe-out per side, front bar OE position
-2.2r, 2mm toe-in per side, GT2 bar middle of three holes
- hoosier tires mentioned above
I was comfortable with this setup for a long time as it worked for me. As i have gotten more familar with the car and just more track days i know realize that this is bordering on loose and it is preventing me from going faster as i can't get on the throttle as aggressively as i want as my hands are constantly correcting oversteer induced by the throttle. I'm going to try putting the gt2 bar on the softest of the 3 holes to see if that works before i touch the front bar.
Yesterdays event was mostly 5 days or less tracktime guys and gals (zero in many cases) BMW event new M3s, M5s and M6s (just destroying their front pads) all running in the slower group and just a few cars me, a very well driven r888 tired lowered boxster s, 335, 135, m6 having fun on an empty track. The boxster s with r888s was as fast as me in the corners (maybe faster) given its weight (i would now love to drive a spec boxter with hoosiers). The 335s and 135s were dressed in r888s also and were really pushing their cars around - the 335 is clearly too heavy in stock form but the 135 looked very good out there (i was passing every one but when i approached th 135 the car alway looked very comfortable on the track. The 335 "chipped" guy just kept going into limp mode and the sales guy was there (old old friend) and he was saying these cars are having lots of turbo issues (waste gates, etc)
summary
- loved the hoosiers
- need to try slicks next
- car almost fully sorted out (softer rear for more grip = faster i think)
- our cars need more front tire
- engine mounts, toe arms, 2mm rear toe-in hoosiers = no wiggle (much less anyways)
- our ABS unit still sucks and if the rears unload (late braking into 5A, ice-mode just sends you off the track) - plus i was coming in alot faster
- even a bad driver like me can easily do 1:36.5 with hoosiers at Mosport
- the M6 driver that asked for a ride laughed when i asked if he gets car sick and that to raise his hand if he needed me to stop (he didn't and was a great guy - 2nd trackday ever) but had to sit down for 25 minutes afterwards
Paul
- it is about an 80km drive to the track (pretty smooth roads, sunny day) so i drove the car to the track with virgin Hoosiers (no issue at all)
- in terms of fit, i decided to remove the rear 5mm spacer to make sure there wouldn't be the chance of rubbing (inside clearance wasn't a problem without the spacer and i didn't want to try it with the spacer and then trackside have to remove them if there was rubbing on the rear fender)
- the front 235/35 hoosier is a good 3/4 inch wider than the OE cup tire but running -2.7 front camber didn't think it would be an issue so i was even so bold to see if i could relocate the rear 5mm spacer to the front and get the clearance - after mounting the spacer and the tire it wasn't going to work (unless i really pulled the fender) so i removed the spacer and remounted - it was close (likely wouldn't have been an issue) but i decided to just grab a wooden hammer and just slightly up and down the fender lever the fender away from the tire
- also, my camber is set up with shims only so the caster has the wheel quite forward in the wheel well (thought this was going to be an issue but again i was surprised that everything worked on the track without rubbing - i think the very slight fender "pull" took all of 3 minutes did the job and it is very easy to do
- think as reported by others, you have to keep hoosiers at 40 and below (i felt even at 40 they didn't have the grip they did in the high 30s - i tried to keep the fronts 36 to 38 and the rears at 37 to 40 but i was having so much fun some sessions were longer than others so i was never really sure were the tires were (last session i know the tires went up 12 psi as i was starting them 26/27 and the first two laps you could feel the tires needed air in them
- since the hoosier 235 is more like a 255 (maybe even bigger) it was kind of a good experiment to see what upsizing the front (+2) and upsizing the rear (+1) would do to the car
- my first conclusion is that the car is far better / more stable under braking
- it has been reported by virtually every gt3 driver i have met that braking into turn #8 at mosport (after the hill above 240kph) results in a really wiggly rear end
i have done a few things to try and fix this problem:
- new LSD (paul guard) - no effect
- r888s - no effect
- wevo engine mounts, tarret toe arms, hoosiers, tiny bit more rear toe in (2mm per side)
- some combo of above has fixed most of the issue (car was much more planted yesterday)
car performance with the hoosiers
- car was easy to drive fast, cornering speeds are clearly faster than with the OE tires (no kidding) and with the r888s
- i previously posted that a pro diver drove my car and mentioned it was to loose for him and that he would be faster with it tighter
- i didn't make any changes as at that time my rear tires were shot and i wanted to wait until i had new tires to see if anything changed
My setup
-2.7f, 1mm toe-out per side, front bar OE position
-2.2r, 2mm toe-in per side, GT2 bar middle of three holes
- hoosier tires mentioned above
I was comfortable with this setup for a long time as it worked for me. As i have gotten more familar with the car and just more track days i know realize that this is bordering on loose and it is preventing me from going faster as i can't get on the throttle as aggressively as i want as my hands are constantly correcting oversteer induced by the throttle. I'm going to try putting the gt2 bar on the softest of the 3 holes to see if that works before i touch the front bar.
Yesterdays event was mostly 5 days or less tracktime guys and gals (zero in many cases) BMW event new M3s, M5s and M6s (just destroying their front pads) all running in the slower group and just a few cars me, a very well driven r888 tired lowered boxster s, 335, 135, m6 having fun on an empty track. The boxster s with r888s was as fast as me in the corners (maybe faster) given its weight (i would now love to drive a spec boxter with hoosiers). The 335s and 135s were dressed in r888s also and were really pushing their cars around - the 335 is clearly too heavy in stock form but the 135 looked very good out there (i was passing every one but when i approached th 135 the car alway looked very comfortable on the track. The 335 "chipped" guy just kept going into limp mode and the sales guy was there (old old friend) and he was saying these cars are having lots of turbo issues (waste gates, etc)
summary
- loved the hoosiers
- need to try slicks next
- car almost fully sorted out (softer rear for more grip = faster i think)
- our cars need more front tire
- engine mounts, toe arms, 2mm rear toe-in hoosiers = no wiggle (much less anyways)
- our ABS unit still sucks and if the rears unload (late braking into 5A, ice-mode just sends you off the track) - plus i was coming in alot faster
- even a bad driver like me can easily do 1:36.5 with hoosiers at Mosport
- the M6 driver that asked for a ride laughed when i asked if he gets car sick and that to raise his hand if he needed me to stop (he didn't and was a great guy - 2nd trackday ever) but had to sit down for 25 minutes afterwards
Paul
Last edited by 997gt3north; 06-25-2009 at 11:44 AM.
06-23-2009, 03:32 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Think I will just order what every happens to be the best all season tires to go with my winter setup, my hoosiers and my 2 sets of OE mpsc
A well known local apex instructor was there with his 997tt with the new r-compounf pirellis and he loved them
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06-23-2009, 10:23 PM
#8
Hoosier
Paul,
I told you that you'd like the 19" Hoosiers.
My observations are similar to yours.
Running the 5 mm spacer in the rear will not rub inside or outside at -2.2 to -2.4 camber.
Front will not rub either. I tend to run a 3 mm spacer upfront.
I agree with pressures hot. About 36 front / up to 38 rear.
I also knew that you would finally come around and join the rear sway bar soft setting.
As an aside. I've also been running BF Goodrich R1's 265/35/18 F and 335/30/18 R. They are wearing incredibly well. I have over 37 HC's (8 days) and they still have at least 3 more days left. Very stable at speed. Cornering is solid. Braking is greatly improved. I use CCW C10's (9 x 18 / 12 x 18)
I told you that you'd like the 19" Hoosiers.
My observations are similar to yours.
Running the 5 mm spacer in the rear will not rub inside or outside at -2.2 to -2.4 camber.
Front will not rub either. I tend to run a 3 mm spacer upfront.
I agree with pressures hot. About 36 front / up to 38 rear.
I also knew that you would finally come around and join the rear sway bar soft setting.
As an aside. I've also been running BF Goodrich R1's 265/35/18 F and 335/30/18 R. They are wearing incredibly well. I have over 37 HC's (8 days) and they still have at least 3 more days left. Very stable at speed. Cornering is solid. Braking is greatly improved. I use CCW C10's (9 x 18 / 12 x 18)
06-23-2009, 10:37 PM
#9
So no rubbing at all with the R1s on 18" wheels? The guy at Tire Rack said he didn't think they'd fit but, of course, couldn't say for sure. I have just started running -3 degrees front camber and -2.5 degrees rear. Car turns in like a dream in tight corners.
06-24-2009, 07:31 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Paul sounds like you made the jump to Hoosiers with out an issue. I have driven the Corsa's and the R888's and i was thinking that I was ready to try, compare a set of Hoosiers. They say the danger is that the grip better but when the bust loose the snap is bigger, did you have any low speed corners that you could rotate the car, what was that like? did the come up to temp pretty quickly.
I want some.
I want some.
06-24-2009, 09:43 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
Paul sounds like you made the jump to Hoosiers with out an issue. I have driven the Corsa's and the R888's and i was thinking that I was ready to try, compare a set of Hoosiers. They say the danger is that the grip better but when the bust loose the snap is bigger, did you have any low speed corners that you could rotate the car, what was that like? did the come up to temp pretty quickly.
I want some.
I want some.
- There is no issue what so ever with the R6s - easy to drive fast
- the only issue is that you will be driving faster and that if you get in trouble you will have to have the skills to get out of trouble
- I am at the point where with OE tires and r888s I have no problem correcting the car while tracking out
- do I have more to learn - absolutely - tonnes
- I would say that my progression is likely similar to others that have done the trackdays that I have
- plus I now have enough trackdays in the gt3 to know what it will do (that said I did spin the car at shannonville a few weeks ago - but on inspection my rear tires were corded and I did not know - so that was a surprise that I should have been on top of
- if you trailer your car or live within 50 miles of your track and have done enough track days to feel confident that you can make small corrections while riding the slip angle then I see no downside
Paul
06-25-2009, 10:39 AM
#14
Hoosier
Nice report guys.
Paul,
When you're through your first set of Hoosiers, I'd like to know how many heat cycles (approximately 25 minute runs at temp) that you were able to achieve.
In my experience in the GT3 with similar suspensions settings as yours, I have averaged about 25 to 28 HC's before the tires either began to cord on inside edge, or really fell off severely in terms of grip. I also have been rotating the tires pretty consistently (right to left) and occasionally have "flipped" the tire on the rim 1/2 way through the HC's.
Paul,
When you're through your first set of Hoosiers, I'd like to know how many heat cycles (approximately 25 minute runs at temp) that you were able to achieve.
In my experience in the GT3 with similar suspensions settings as yours, I have averaged about 25 to 28 HC's before the tires either began to cord on inside edge, or really fell off severely in terms of grip. I also have been rotating the tires pretty consistently (right to left) and occasionally have "flipped" the tire on the rim 1/2 way through the HC's.
06-25-2009, 03:57 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
I've found 25-28 HC's is where they switch off. And I mean OFF...the car will still be plenty drivable on the track at 8/10ths but if you decide to pick up the pace the car will snap near 10/10ths. Only lose about 1 sec but it makes for a pretty scary ride.
Hoosiers tend to get to temperature pretty quickly...much quicker than a set of slicks. Great time trial tire.
Hoosiers tend to get to temperature pretty quickly...much quicker than a set of slicks. Great time trial tire.