sws1

This may sound like a dumb question, but why does ABS activation cause so much wear on the rotors? Is it the hard on/off, or just that by definition you're breaking more than you are aware of?

rodjac

sws1: There are no dumb questions but probably some dumb answers like this one. The issue isn't with ABS but with traction control and stability control or if you prefer spin control. I have seen some cars go through rear pads in a day when the driver was pushing very hard and relying on these aids to bail them out. I think the brakes fighting hard throttle has a lot to do with a lot of heat being generated.

mooty

yes, you can kill of PASM completely as it's never ever there. if you pm me your email, i have something for you.

PogueMoHone

Have you been listening to the "pros" at Leipzig? They have been saying this since Gen 1 and (to quote another Rennlister) the days when they were taking the CGT to within an inch of its life.

That"s exactly what they say, and the "P50" pads are great for ceramics, provided you are driving the car and not relying on the brakes to conquer your fears.

The odds are that ceramic problems are more related to driver inputs than technological weakness.

Land Jet

To the OP--what was the difference in the handling with the heavier rotors?

IMHO, and I'm not an engineer or expert, if Porsche PCCB's fail after a few track days, that design is a failure, and Porsche should admit it. I bought into the hype when they first came out, but with so many reports of short service for the money spent, I will never have any on a car I would order.

PogueMoHone

You might want to consider that Porsche factory drivers could hammer on the Ceramics all day long, making passengers sick in the process, and never a ceramic problem. All day long, session after session, with no breaks in between and, more importantly, no over heating, pad degradation or rotor flaking.

When you factor in the above and consider that they were using the brakes to manage the weight, versus using the brakes to correct over aggression, your impression and opinion might be subject to a slightly different influence.

Then when you read "amateurs (no disrespect intended)" are having problems you really have to weigh the various data points and get past the emotional reactions.

Yeah! I am pissed off I can't drive as fast or as smoothly as those guys, but I am not going to blame the equipment, or abuse it, in the attempt to compensate for my limitations.

I am not the one who coined the phrase that "money was probably better spent on instruction than on mods".

Now, if you can do both...

Bill_C4S

Curious....I don't see the same issues being generated with irons...

Or put in other words, old tech "Irons" seem rather more tolerant of divergent driving styles than PCCB's...

PogueMoHone

Maybe it is just the pain threshold that is lower, and ceramics raise the price of "poker".. but the results are pretty telling, all in all.

To paraphrase Hurley Haywood...."in racing, if you want to win, you have to make the equipment last"

rodjac

land jet: I didn't really notice any difference in handling but I also have the light weight Champion wheels which offset the added weight.

On another subject. I don't think it matters if professional drivers can hammer the ceramics all day and not have a problem. I and most of the other buyers are not professionals and the car should be designed to take into account our less than perfect driving style. If I were a pro they would pay me to drive but I pay them a lot of money to drive the car.

Z06

Exactly!
On the new 10 GT3 Porsche said that the SC &TC on or off Pro's turned the same lap times, no chance of that with the GT2.

cgomez

So we AGREE? It is all about the drivers. Some people that are leaving TC ON drive "against" it coming out of corners (too much throttle, especially in a torquey GT2) while they still go 6-7/10ths in the corners.

I drove 550mi on the NuburgRing in a GT3 (Hard at 8min lap pace) that had the TC off switch disabled with no issues and the rear brake pads had a lot more life than the fronts (as it should be).

cgomez

Incorrect. The "problem" with the GT2 for the regular drivers is that it has 66% more torque than the GT3, therefore a LOT easier to trigger wheelspin coming out of corners. The Pro will still modulate the throttle and keep the car at that threshold carrying the same speed (=lap times). I (and the Pros too I guess) prefer to keep TC OFF for the fun factor, as a bit of sideways drift coming out of corners doesn't slow you down (with LSD) and it is a lot more fun.

Land Jet

[/QUOTE]
I don't think it matters if professional drivers can hammer the ceramics all day and not have a problem. I and most of the other buyers are not professionals and the car should be designed to take into account our less than perfect driving style. If I were a pro they would pay me to drive but I pay them a lot of money to drive the car.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly. Porsche advertised this to the public and made no disclaimers about "professional drivers only". For the advertised purpose and design, I stick with my label as a FAILURE. Porsche should now come out with the disclaimer so other non professional buyers won't be misled.

AllanJ

Do you think people would actually read it?

As far as "professional drivers only" goes, I think that's crap. Anyone who goes to a handful of DEs has probably been told by their instructors how to drive a car with computer nannies. I often hear them telling people "if that light on the dash goes on telling you the computer is taking over, then you're doing something wrong".

It's unfortunate that in this case abuse of the system will be very costly.

Cheers,

roberga

In the may Panorama Porsche has an ad which states that the discs and calipers are covered by a two year warranty. The photo in the ad is of PCCBs. How do they square this with people who have worn rotors?