TB993tt

Sorry if it wasn't clear...... It is not "development costs" it is the material and fabrication of the cores which costs the money. Take a look at some of the pics then look at pics of cheaper cores.

Z06

Thanks for posting the RS Tuning process... I also find the power delivery quite smooth as you said making it an easy car to drive fast!

When I am out lapping at Mosport I can empty a tank with no issues...you would never know it has 600HP drives as it did stock.

Any idea if they are going to be reproducing your IC?

+ I cant believe it, but I am ready for the next HP stage...Crazy!!

TB993tt

The smooth power/torque delivery is quite uncanny. For the sake of experiment I tried something yesterday.

Wet road, not puddles but wet. 14 degC, I ran from 2000rpm in 4th up to near 7000rpm - I was hanging on, alert, getting ready for the torque to break the traction but it didn't !!!

I logged the "run" and it did 100-200kph in 4th gear only in ~ 7s with a maximum longitudinal G of around 0.5

These are phenominal cars

The combination which allows this is:

Smooth torque delivery, starting very low with boost coming in just after 2000rpm and 1.4bar by 3000rpm then a flatish torque curve all the way up the rev range.

The gearing on these cars means that a high and broad torque engine can be made to work really well, these gears are loonnngg - third gear runs to 114mph and 4th to 141mph

The chassis - I have no idea which bits are doing the job but they work

The tyres - these new NO cups are simply an amazing tyre, in the dry they are the stickiest thing imaginable (never tried slicks ) and in the wet they even more amazing - I guess it is when it starts getting cold that their shortcomings will reveal themselves.

Freak997tt

Hey Toby

We just test a TIP 997tt with upgraded GT2 turbos + new Protomotive 4.5" coolers

The car ran 100-200kmh in 6.0sec ON PUMP GAS and the temp was 37C and Dubai damn humidity...The car was on non sport chrono mode = 1.0bar ) ( coz we r ranning pumpgas )

The car should much quicker/faster on SC and racegas!!

Same car with modded stock VTG's and AWE coolers ran 100-200kmh 6.0sec on racegas and 6.5sec on pumpgas on winter ( 18C ) also it ran 200-300 in 13.5sec on racegas

What do u think??

Freak997tt

BTW...We r getting Proto ECU on bone stock 997 GT2...I will keep update u guyz

TB993tt

Sounds like a good drag racer - looks like those thick intercoolers can absorb plenty of heat for a single 300kph run......

pmf

Hi Toby,

Do you mind sharing a dyno chart?
I am quite interested in evaluating what can be a different power delivery curve , rather than in having additional ponies

Thanks in advance,
Paolo

TB993tt

Drop me a PM with your email and I will send you

Jiaim

RS-Tuning 's website has disapeared?

does anyone knows where techart source their upgraded intercoolers too?


and champion motorsports?

Z06

RS Tuning products can be purchased thru Cargraphic

TB993tt

I cannot get involved on 6Speed (not that they would want me on there - I would last 2 posts before a ban !) but I love reading some of the stuff on there - some of the punters are easy pickings for the "tuners"....

On an intercooler thread on the 996tt forum someone started talking about Secans and then one of the 6bling boys is saying that the Secan is overkill and only useful if you are a proffessional racer doing a 24 hour race etc...

This is a fair enough comment, but then the true 6bling "users" raise their heads, check out this response:

+1 . 24 hours for a piece of equipment that has no cyclic loading nor runs at very high temps like a hotside turbo casing is not that big a deal. Secans are probably used because they got the contract. I am sure that any decent set of IC's will last for a 24 hour race. heck, the stockers with plastic end tanks have lasted for many who track daily. How many people here have had aftermarket IC's for years and 10's of thousands of miles with no issues. Sorry, I don't buy it. $18K for any non moving, no stress, low heat, part is ridiculous. Now if someone wants to sell me a set of Secans for $2k, I am there

The above comment was agreed with and +1ed a couple of times !!!!

WTF planet are some of these guys on ? These are supposed to be car guys ! They think an intercooler will "fail" like an overheated turbo or a brake disc or something

They have so little idea of what intercoolers are actually doing that they can't fathom why a Secan will be more beneficial than a cheapie intercooler in a 24 hour race ?

Hey....... +1

prche951

Toby, you are right, you can't bring your crap over there and expect people just to believe it like the word of god. So I will bring it to you, here.

Both you and GTDeux spew for secan, because you have to justify to everyone why you paid so much money for NO noted performance gain. That's right Toby, you got a set of Awe's in your possession right? Why did everyone not see a full on comparison. Instead we saw some hybrid IC's compared? wtf? but honestly, not sure I would believe that you could be unbiased after you already paid 18k for secans.

No one on 6 speed was bashing secan, every single person was saying the same thing, shows us proof!!! show me a test on the same car under the same conditions of secan, awe, proto, bell, evoms. Or pick one like awe or evoms and test it.

and as for your blingers comment, you are the only blinger here. Maybe you should stick to facts instead of name calling.

And as for this comment:
"WTF planet are some of these guys on ? These are supposed to be car guys ! They think an intercooler will "fail" like an overheated turbo or a brake disc or something" your friend GTdeux was the one that brought that up. apparently he believes that all the cheaper ic's will fail by self destructing or something...lol...again stick to facts instead of name calling.

I think Todd/AWE said it all on his post #7. Nothing has changed and this last post of yours proves it. As for banning over there, things like that happen over here to.

SHOW PROOF!!!!

eclou

While Toby's opinions are strong, he's the last person I would accuse of not showing proof. A simple search here would reveal years and years of his data gathering, research, frustrations, conclusions for and against popular products and conventional wisdom. Toby has been one of the few who has funded his own "Mythbusters: Porsche" for us enthusiasts to live and learn by.

prche951

fair enough and I agree as I have looked him up. However, there is no denying that secan has not been compared to other IC's in testing. Fair to say that other companies have not done much testing and comparing themselves to secan and others as well. Comparison testing in this market seems like a bad word. There is no denying that Secan is top quality. However, I have seen the competition up close and it is top quality as well. The point being that unless you test on the same vehicle under very similar conditions, the who's best theory, remains just that, a theory. Surely for $18k for a set you would think that a mfg could at least provide supporting evidence of how great their IC's are. They may well be worth it, but without this evidence, it is all conjecture.

TB993tt

Many thanks for bringing it over here
Firstly I have no idea who GTDeux is but he is obviously a knowledgable person
You seem to have the wrong end of the stick..... I paid once for a Secan intercooler on my 993tt. We tested it religiously and it works very very well. I resent spending so much on an intercooler VERY much. I resent Secan much more than you do since they have spanked me for a bloody radiator ! I can't justify what the Secan stuff costs - but you know what it is completely irrelevant because Secan have effectively stopped making these intercoolers now, they are disinterested since it is not what they do as a company.

You don't seem to get it WHY SHOULD I TEST ANYTHING ? I am not trying to sell anything to anyone. Testing is a major pain in the ar*e, it takes 4 bloody hours to swap around the intercoolers, a day off work etc etc etc !!!

I got hold of the AWE ones and I simply thought they were not good, too heavy and cheap looking cores - JUST MY OPINION BASED ON LOOKING AND FEELING THEM - I did not want to go through the rigmarole of testing them,..... AWE are the only aftermarket tuner who has attempted to show testing but even the stuff they have shared only goes up to 130mph (but does do a better job than stock up to 130mph).... here is what happens when you go faster:

This is stock intercoolers on 997GT2 - the IAT keeps going up and continues into 6th gear - I have not seen any other "tuner" show how their's perform at these speeds ?



I cannot find where GTDeux said anything to hint that he thought an intercooler would fail which is what you seem to think was being said



I just read post number 7 again - you have to read all the responses to see that I did intend to test the AWE intercoolers but decided not to when they arrived for reasons stated above....
Of what ? I can't test other peoples intercoolers, I'm not interested, but until the makers can show something like the graph below which is how my aerospace intercoolers work (yes they are aerospace, the company who makes them makes radiators for Eurofighter and they have the word "aerospace" in their name ) then how do any of the buyers know what they are buying ?

Mine are as good as Secan and I am very pleased, but they still cost a lot - 5 X the cost of the "non aerospace" ones.....