Can anyone confirm that in terms of size, end tank shape, location, that the GT2 intercoolers are the exact same as 996tt/996GT2/997tt ?

In other words if I get a set of 996tt stock intercoolers and have some new ones made to the same dimensions they will fit my 997 GT2 ?

 

You might look at existing aftermarket kits for the GT2's and Turbos to see if the OEMs use the same part numbers for the different applications. My first step would be to see where people are making power in the new engines. From what I've seen, replacing the compressor "cartridge" and a soft remap seems to be the least expensive dollars per HP. I saw a Turbo done by Alex at Sharkwerks (site sponsor) and he went the whole hog with headers, etc., but he might be able to advise on less radical surgery to tweak more neddies out of the GT2 without the expense (and consequences) of bigger/different IC tanks. What's your purpose/objective in replacing the ICs?

 

hey tb993tt, the 996tt and gt2 units have the same dimensions end tanks etc... and the only different with the cores is that they have protrouding fins on the GT2 ones (and now 997TT/GT2). The angle of the end tanks is slightly different for the 997 application. I wouldn't make them based off of the 996TT end tanks though since there are some differences. Start with a set of stock 997TT intercoolers. I know a bunch of 997TT guys have replaced theirs so finding some stockers shouldn't be hard

 

You sure about the end tank difference ? Seems that the Secans which RS sell are exact same 996/7 same with AWEs
Maybe slight difference but still fit OK- 996 to 997 ?

 

hey tb933tt, as I was saying it's the "angle" of the end tanks which is the only difference... The end tanks are the same and so is the appearance but when 996TT guys try to install 997TT based parts it won't fit without some modification if that makes sense?

 

Thanks for the explanation - so if I had some intercoolers made based on 996tt units would they fit my GT2 ? - that is my plan

 

Alex, your patience far exceeds mine!

TB, you're in the UK, so nothing is cheap and you're running a brand spanking new GT2 and you want to fabricate new intercoolers -- expensive and usually unproductive -- so you're not afraid to spend a few quid.

I'm curious to understand what you're trying to do, so perhaps you can elaborate please and then we'll all have a better grasp of the situation and maybe offer some advice. I think what Alex has posted is pretty unambiguous but you seem to be probing for more specifics. Do you already have some ICs? Have you damaged your car and want to do more than replace stock parts? Do you want to fab something special? Do you want to use some take-offs to build a jig before you disassemble your car?

In my limited experience, I find the ICs to be one of the points of least return on investment in a forced induction system, especially at factory trim spec in late model cars. If anything, I'd be reducing the size of the IC's and cutting lag by whatever means best serves, but that's another story. For whatever reason, the 997 GT2 has caught my eye and I'm the curious type. While the move from a GT3 to a GT2 is -- in my humble -- a step backwards, I admit I'm tempted. At $200K+, the GT2 in the US is out of reach. At $180K or less, it comes into reach (although I should look up the quote about ones reach not exceeding ones grasp...)

I wonder if people are getting one and finding it lacking (hence threads on tweaking power) or if there are other aspects (lag, weight, tune) which are causing drivers to pursue ways to "improve" a 911 which is already insanely over the top (price, weight, appearance as well as power ...)

Once we understand the motive and the "plan" or why you want to fab new ICs, maybe there's a more productive line of discussion. : )

 

I don't think the GT2 to the GT3 is the step backwards you imagine. I suspect that the GT2 is unappreciated, and compared to the "F"(ing) competition highly underrated. Sometimes we need to be hit with a 2x4.

I think what the GT2 requires is real skill and expertise, and if you have that then it shines. Even without the prerequisites I am sorely tempted.

 

You again. Contrarian. Mr Kettle, allow myself to introduce myself, Mr Pot. : )

This time I think we might be more in agreement. I tend to agree the GT2 might be a wolf in wolf's clothing. The "hard core" drivers have been indoctrinated by the GT3 because of a decade of successful cars and the instant gratification of naturally aspirated throttle response, but the GT2 perhaps should not be so quickly relegated to the "rich toy" garage. It has a name that, while it comes from greatness, has suffered some "PR" setbacks with the 996 and so it's likely under appreciated (by 911 devotees even though there's a small cadre of 996 GT2 track drivers) and attracts the fat checkbook types wanting nothing but the best (only substitute "most expensive" for "best.") For me, perhaps if only it didn't have the LED running lights and the "Saleen" vents and plastic vents. Superficial of the car and equally superficial of me to be distracted by that stuff, but so it goes. And once you're dropping a number that approaches a quarter million on the table, I think the car should justify the sticker shock. : )

Given the sad demise of Ferrari in terms of resale value -- and I hope Porsche deals them a more worthy demise on the race track in '09 -- it's easier to think about the 997 GT2 and its depreciation curve compared to the F430 or Scuderia and a similar (or worse?) depreciation. After all, though I'm repeating myself, once you're buying an expensive car, it's not the initial outlay, it's the depreciation and the cost to step to the next model. Now that Ferrari does not hold that resale value card, I think Porsche has the better hand.

Of course, all that said, if the dealer calls to offer me a Scuderia allocation, I might find it hard to argue the merits of the GT2 even at half the price! : ) Talk about fickle!

 

^
Truer words were never spoken! But you neglect the "intangibles" of ownership, making it even more true, irrespective of depreciation curve. Then we can get into durability, price differential (there goes the most best/expensive argument), etc. and soon it is no contest!

Like you I would take a Scuderia, but not necessarily instead of, because I still am not convinced by that damn F1 transmission that the "poseurs" love. The stick shift is still the standard of comparison (for me) and even the PDK (997, which I liked a lot) is better on the track than the F1 (too clunky and abrupt... oh!, the deferred expense). However, that is all discussion for another day.

 

Perhaps the F1 box is a bit like the saying "you're only as old as the woman you feel" ... "you're only as slow as the technology shifting your gears." I think the Scuderia with the obsolescent F1 is a car not to keep but to experience as a point in time and enjoy it for wonder of it -- a thoroughbred F1 dominating team and the technology that comes to their street cars to pay the bills. Next year, any current model Ferrari without the dual clutch will be on a slippery depreciation curve, so if someone were lucky enough to be getting a Scuderia in '08, '09 or perhaps even '10, I'd expect they'd do well to enjoy it and trade it before the delta to the next model became too unpleasant. And to harp on it, I think any current model with a manual gearbox will be valued (and appreciated in both senses of both words) long after the dust over various robotic shifting machinery settles.

I'm sure I'm overstaying my Porsche welcome with this level of Ferrari badinage, so I'll finish by saying the grass is greener, so I expect I'll have to cross the fence at least long enough to check out that green grass -- probably in the form of an F430, but maybe in a Scuderia if the gods are with me. I don't expect I'll ever get an F40, but who knows, maybe this recession will be deeper than even the pessimists are yet willing to foretell. I don't think I'd wish that fate on the nation just so I can enjoy an F40.

 

Thats some lecturing..............I let TB be more diplomatic with you, but the tuner he uses (the best IMO) , the money/dedication he has spend on good and **** parts over the decades , to the level he took his 993 puts him on a plateau which is beyond what you ever will achieve in performance nirvana.Period.

BTW, are you on the W coast ? Whats your hot lap times in Willow S or ButtonW with those "backward " cars or the F430 ? What RPM/ Gear are you on the frnt straight ?

 

TB, if I am reading Sharkster's responses correctly, I believe he is saying that the ICs are the same shape but the mount points would be at different points or angles and therefore you would make it a trickier exercise for yourself in starting with 996 units as you would have to improvise or modify mounting points to manipulate them to the correct angle when fitting. Starting with 997 units gives you correct angle and fitment and you can modify the guts of the ICs as you please... a neater platform to work with...

 

That's what I thought he meant but was curious to just how far out the end tanks would be 996 to 7 since AFAIK AWE and Secan use exactly the same units with no re-orienteering of the end tank if you see what I mean....

Mr CGT
I did see your first post but didn't really want to get into specifics but since you asked and you seem genuinely interested in the GT2 here we go:


This car is absolutely phenominal on every level..... does it need more performance ? not really....
The way Porsche have tuned the torque curve seems spot on for the available grip the TC and PSM make it so easy to exploit and enjoy the car.

Originally I was thinking of a 650PS/830NM RS Tuning conversion but the firstly devaluation of Sterling makes this a ridiculous proposition and secondly the more I drive the thing (1200miles already) the more I appreciate what it has and do not want to ruin by turning it into a wheel spinning dragster....

So my current thinking is: 700NM is enough for this car, it is right on the limit of traction at this level, anymore and the character is changed big time.

This engine runs high boost, 1.4bar at DIN at 6500rpm (currently maxing at only 1.2bar in the UK in 2 DegC !!) it has high IATs, there is talk of 80DegC (pre expansion manifold) in 20DegC ambient so thermally it seems it is near to the edge....

So my plan is:
Reduce some back pressure, get the IATs down and then maybe use the extra headroom to get some programming to increase the torque from 5000rpm to 7000rpm and at the same time increase the rev limit to 7200rpm.

Regarding your "limited experience" in intercooling - you said it
I am one of the mugs who has spent the $20K on Secan technology so you can bet there has been some research done in this area...
As Pole kindly points out (thanks Pole ) I have glugged through my fair share of snake oil over the years and TBH what I am embarking on here may well end up in that category but it is fun and not too expensive....

A friend has access to a company in the same field as Secan and basically I am hoping to get a set of similar performing I/Cs for 1/3 the price - still expensive but these types of cores cost..... Using Cargraphic cats and possibly headers (although I'm geting conflicting advice on these) the back pressure will be reduced....

So with a little more boost/timing from 5-7000rpm I am hoping to extend that 700NM torque curve up the rev range - this thing already rips at the top end with the expansion manifold doing its thing, I just want more of that.....

 

Following from above, the chart below is from Cargraphic who transpose (sometimes not very precisely - check out the tuned torque curve at the top end ) RS Tuning engine dyno diagrams into this type of chart....

The chart is for their cats, headers and BMC.

If this chart is correct then I seriously may avoid any reprogramming since the top end surge looks nice and real engine dyno 560PS is serious, my 993 "only" had 577 from the same dyno and that is plenty quick for me....

Of course the intercoolers if they work will just serve to prolong the DIN hp by maintaining maximum timing...