Nissan used Cayman as 370Z target
11-26-2008, 07:22 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
I am not sure if I agree with that or not.. it is a very common practice for all car manufacturers to buy products from their competitors and study them, etc.
I am sure right now some Porsche engineers are taking apart the GT-R to figure out what Nissan did, etc. And I am sure some lessons will be learned from that, and the next Turbo will be even better, etc.
A friend who used to work for GM said that they always get to play w/ the latest cars from Europe as those are used as benchmark for interior (especially Audi..)
I am sure right now some Porsche engineers are taking apart the GT-R to figure out what Nissan did, etc. And I am sure some lessons will be learned from that, and the next Turbo will be even better, etc.
A friend who used to work for GM said that they always get to play w/ the latest cars from Europe as those are used as benchmark for interior (especially Audi..)
11-26-2008, 09:06 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I visited Weissach in 1993 and in the foyer to the canteen they had displays of other manufacturer's parts on display.
I recall a Mazda electric window motor completely dissected with strings going to the individual components that lead to text in the display with comments on the weight and material.
On the Nissan front, you get a lot of car for the money. I have a 2003 350Z as my daily driver and never have had a warrantee claim on the car.
The latest 370 Z is built on a wheelbase that is 3.9" shorter than my car with a 1" wider track. Also the 370 has aluminum doors, hood and hatchback, a carbon fiber drive shaft, forged aluminum suspension with double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear suspension. The car is 100 pounds lighter and the 332 HP engine has 45 more horsepower and has a 900 rpm higher (7500) rev limit than my car. Base price is still $29,930, not bad progress.
A $3000 sports package gets you 19" forged alloy wheels that are 6 pounds lighter each with wider tires, 14" brakes with 4 and 2 piston alloy calipers, a limited slip differential, a spoiler package (for zero lift front and rear and lower Cd) and something called "Syncroshift".
Syncroshift is a system that has a gear lever position sensor which coupled with a computer package that monitors engine and car speed to blip the throttle for you as you downshift the manual trans.
Compared to the $59,900 of the Cayman S which does not include the automatic air conditioning and Xenon lights that are standard on the Z, the Z is quite a deal!
Not to mention that Nissan has an extensive performance parts program that allows you to upgrade the car with factory parts easily...and the prices are right here as well.
I recall a Mazda electric window motor completely dissected with strings going to the individual components that lead to text in the display with comments on the weight and material.
On the Nissan front, you get a lot of car for the money. I have a 2003 350Z as my daily driver and never have had a warrantee claim on the car.
The latest 370 Z is built on a wheelbase that is 3.9" shorter than my car with a 1" wider track. Also the 370 has aluminum doors, hood and hatchback, a carbon fiber drive shaft, forged aluminum suspension with double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear suspension. The car is 100 pounds lighter and the 332 HP engine has 45 more horsepower and has a 900 rpm higher (7500) rev limit than my car. Base price is still $29,930, not bad progress.
A $3000 sports package gets you 19" forged alloy wheels that are 6 pounds lighter each with wider tires, 14" brakes with 4 and 2 piston alloy calipers, a limited slip differential, a spoiler package (for zero lift front and rear and lower Cd) and something called "Syncroshift".
Syncroshift is a system that has a gear lever position sensor which coupled with a computer package that monitors engine and car speed to blip the throttle for you as you downshift the manual trans.
Compared to the $59,900 of the Cayman S which does not include the automatic air conditioning and Xenon lights that are standard on the Z, the Z is quite a deal!
Not to mention that Nissan has an extensive performance parts program that allows you to upgrade the car with factory parts easily...and the prices are right here as well.
11-26-2008, 10:09 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
I visited Weissach in 1993 and in the foyer to the canteen they had displays of other manufacturer's parts on display.
I recall a Mazda electric window motor completely dissected with strings going to the individual components that lead to text in the display with comments on the weight and material.
On the Nissan front, you get a lot of car for the money. I have a 2003 350Z as my daily driver and never have had a warrantee claim on the car.
The latest 370 Z is built on a wheelbase that is 3.9" shorter than my car with a 1" wider track. Also the 370 has aluminum doors, hood and hatchback, a carbon fiber drive shaft, forged aluminum suspension with double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear suspension. The car is 100 pounds lighter and the 332 HP engine has 45 more horsepower and has a 900 rpm higher (7500) rev limit than my car. Base price is still $29,930, not bad progress.
A $3000 sports package gets you 19" forged alloy wheels that are 6 pounds lighter each with wider tires, 14" brakes with 4 and 2 piston alloy calipers, a limited slip differential, a spoiler package (for zero lift front and rear and lower Cd) and something called "Syncroshift".
Syncroshift is a system that has a gear lever position sensor which coupled with a computer package that monitors engine and car speed to blip the throttle for you as you downshift the manual trans.
Compared to the $59,900 of the Cayman S which does not include the automatic air conditioning and Xenon lights that are standard on the Z, the Z is quite a deal!
Not to mention that Nissan has an extensive performance parts program that allows you to upgrade the car with factory parts easily...and the prices are right here as well.
I recall a Mazda electric window motor completely dissected with strings going to the individual components that lead to text in the display with comments on the weight and material.
On the Nissan front, you get a lot of car for the money. I have a 2003 350Z as my daily driver and never have had a warrantee claim on the car.
The latest 370 Z is built on a wheelbase that is 3.9" shorter than my car with a 1" wider track. Also the 370 has aluminum doors, hood and hatchback, a carbon fiber drive shaft, forged aluminum suspension with double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear suspension. The car is 100 pounds lighter and the 332 HP engine has 45 more horsepower and has a 900 rpm higher (7500) rev limit than my car. Base price is still $29,930, not bad progress.
A $3000 sports package gets you 19" forged alloy wheels that are 6 pounds lighter each with wider tires, 14" brakes with 4 and 2 piston alloy calipers, a limited slip differential, a spoiler package (for zero lift front and rear and lower Cd) and something called "Syncroshift".
Syncroshift is a system that has a gear lever position sensor which coupled with a computer package that monitors engine and car speed to blip the throttle for you as you downshift the manual trans.
Compared to the $59,900 of the Cayman S which does not include the automatic air conditioning and Xenon lights that are standard on the Z, the Z is quite a deal!
Not to mention that Nissan has an extensive performance parts program that allows you to upgrade the car with factory parts easily...and the prices are right here as well.
11-26-2008, 11:51 PM
#19
Imho, the Japanese are the value for dollar leaders when it comes to sports cars. People talk about the great value for dollar of the Corvette. It is no doubt fast, but I personally derive much greater enjoyment tossing around a light, responsive spec miata or S2000 at half the price of a vette. I love Porsche's and Ferrari's as much as anyone, but you have to give the Japanese manufacturers respect for the great, reliable sports cars they make at price points far below the Germans and Italians.
01-25-2010, 02:42 PM
#20
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At the risk of reviving an old thread, and repeating previously stated sentiments, I'd like to chime in - if anyone is still listening.
Competitive Benchmarking is a critical aspect of the product engineering design cycle. It allows an organization to identify market advantage, focus on product value, and identify and prioritize key design constraints.
Nissan has a strong history of being openly passionate about the automobile engineering and ownership experience. I think the public acknowledgment of Porsche as the primary performance automobile to benchmark is an acknowledgment of the spirit and performance in which the company operates, and respects.
Nissan prides itself on delivering comparable performance, at a greatly reduced price to the consumer. In the engineering world, this is essentially the definition of Value Engineering and in itself is a demonstration of Engineering Excellence (an excellence that is pervasive in Japan, and one that I'm not sure that any German automobile manufacturer can rival - in fact didn't the Japanese help Porsche modernize its manufacturing when the Boxster was introduced to the market?) Nissan is certainly providing a greater performance automobile value to the auto enthusiast community. Just because Nissan targets Porsche as a competitive standard, it is not for the purpose of "copying".
Last summer I was considering a Cayman S after selling my 350Z. After test driving the Cayman there was no question it was a mechanical dream - unquestionably a superior automobile to the Nissan 370Z. Unfortunately at 6-2" I was incredibly uncomfortable in the Cayman, and ultimately returned to Nissan and purchased a '09 370Z with Sport Package. And in doing so, I was relieved that there was a performance alternative to the Cayman. One that was offered at a dramatically reduced sticker price, reduced total cost of ownership,great looks, market leading reliability, and a unique legacy of a Japanese born American Icon.
Competitive Benchmarking is a critical aspect of the product engineering design cycle. It allows an organization to identify market advantage, focus on product value, and identify and prioritize key design constraints.
Nissan has a strong history of being openly passionate about the automobile engineering and ownership experience. I think the public acknowledgment of Porsche as the primary performance automobile to benchmark is an acknowledgment of the spirit and performance in which the company operates, and respects.
Nissan prides itself on delivering comparable performance, at a greatly reduced price to the consumer. In the engineering world, this is essentially the definition of Value Engineering and in itself is a demonstration of Engineering Excellence (an excellence that is pervasive in Japan, and one that I'm not sure that any German automobile manufacturer can rival - in fact didn't the Japanese help Porsche modernize its manufacturing when the Boxster was introduced to the market?) Nissan is certainly providing a greater performance automobile value to the auto enthusiast community. Just because Nissan targets Porsche as a competitive standard, it is not for the purpose of "copying".
Last summer I was considering a Cayman S after selling my 350Z. After test driving the Cayman there was no question it was a mechanical dream - unquestionably a superior automobile to the Nissan 370Z. Unfortunately at 6-2" I was incredibly uncomfortable in the Cayman, and ultimately returned to Nissan and purchased a '09 370Z with Sport Package. And in doing so, I was relieved that there was a performance alternative to the Cayman. One that was offered at a dramatically reduced sticker price, reduced total cost of ownership,great looks, market leading reliability, and a unique legacy of a Japanese born American Icon.
01-25-2010, 03:16 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
In the past couple of magazine reviews, it seems that either the pads or the brake fluid used in the 370Z has caused major fading in track environment. So be sure to watch out for that.
Otherwise, I think the 370Z is a really nice car!
Otherwise, I think the 370Z is a really nice car!
01-25-2010, 03:23 PM
#22
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Toyota does have a classic sports car, that is rare and hard to find, the Toyota 2000GT. 
01-25-2010, 03:25 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
01-25-2010, 05:34 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I am not sure if I agree with that or not.. it is a very common practice for all car manufacturers to buy products from their competitors and study them, etc.
I am sure right now some Porsche engineers are taking apart the GT-R to figure out what Nissan did, etc. And I am sure some lessons will be learned from that, and the next Turbo will be even better, etc.
A friend who used to work for GM said that they always get to play w/ the latest cars from Europe as those are used as benchmark for interior (especially Audi..)
I am sure right now some Porsche engineers are taking apart the GT-R to figure out what Nissan did, etc. And I am sure some lessons will be learned from that, and the next Turbo will be even better, etc.
A friend who used to work for GM said that they always get to play w/ the latest cars from Europe as those are used as benchmark for interior (especially Audi..)
01-25-2010, 06:12 PM
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If I recall correctly, abotu a year ago, Porsche challenged Nissan on the accuracy of their claimed lap times about the Nordschleife in th GTR. As Porsche drivers could not duplicate. Turns out the GTR required a completely different driving style than Porsche drivers were accustomed to.
01-25-2010, 06:15 PM
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It's the pads - Nissan went with a compound that is essentially dust free (big complaint on early 350Zs). Turns out it also fades catastrophically, as R&D can attest to (and other 370Z owners). This, and the oil cooler issue are really the only two issues needing to be addressed with aftermarket parts before a 370Z can be tracked heavily.
01-25-2010, 06:29 PM
#27
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Look at the original Skyline, that was a benchmark car in itself
I was just reading how Nissan used the Cayman Boxster as their target for the 370Z. They used the 911 TT for the GT-R target. They probably used the Cayenne as the Armada target, The Porsche Panamera for the Nissan Quest target and the Porsche company golf cart for the Nissan Rogue target.
Does Nissan do anything out of their own engineering company? Or they just the Japanese Hyundai? Copying everything they can get their hands on to make their own. I used to have some respect for Nissan as the Anti-Toyota Japanese company. But now it seems as though they have a hard time coming up with their own ideas. Not much original thought there or did Infinity take all of it?
Does Nissan do anything out of their own engineering company? Or they just the Japanese Hyundai? Copying everything they can get their hands on to make their own. I used to have some respect for Nissan as the Anti-Toyota Japanese company. But now it seems as though they have a hard time coming up with their own ideas. Not much original thought there or did Infinity take all of it?
01-25-2010, 06:38 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
What's the issue w/ the oil cooler?!
It's the pads - Nissan went with a compound that is essentially dust free (big complaint on early 350Zs). Turns out it also fades catastrophically, as R&D can attest to (and other 370Z owners). This, and the oil cooler issue are really the only two issues needing to be addressed with aftermarket parts before a 370Z can be tracked heavily.
