Took the GT-R and my 997 GT3 to the local track. Until now I had not driven both cars at the same track on the same day.

The GT3 is clearly the "track natural" of the two. Spectacular handling - very flat, great balance, amazing grip, smooth transitions, perfectly weighted. Decent power (could handle more). Intoxication sound at 8400 rpm! Feels very solid, but not too heavy. As I had expected, the GT3 was better at turn-in and corner entry. No understeer at all. Very precise. (Surprisingly the brakes felt soft, with lots of pedal travel after driving the GT-R. Never noticed this when I am only driving the GT-3).

The GT-R was the torquier/stronger of the two. Very easy to drive fast - almost effortless. Power was intoxicating as was the easy/fast/smooth shifting from the transmission - can actually shift mid-turn with the accelerator floored and still not upset the car. While the GT-R feels heavy and tends to understeer going into the turns, once settled in the turn, its ability to power out of the turns, without drama was excellent.The GT-R was clearly better from mid-turn to corner exit, and this tended to give the GT-R a higher speed at the end of each straight section post-turn.

We ran the cars simultaneously with my son and I taking turns in each car and swapping leader/follower, and concluded that the cars are pretty evenly matched in the hands of experienced but non-pro drivers. In the final analysis, the GT-R is probably a touch quicker, because of it superior corner exit speeds and ability to put power down ie. brilliant 4 wheel drive system, and inspires more confidence since it tends to be more stable, error resistant, and the paddle shifters allow one to fully concentrate on braking and turning.
The GT-3 is more engaging and more of a natural "track car". The GT-R uses its technology to comensate for its inherent weight disadvantage.

All in all, two outstanding, if very different cars, quite closely matched.

We aslo had a 996 Twin Turbo on the track. It performed quite well, achieving quite good terminal speeds at the end of the straights (felt as strong as the GT-R). However, it was no match for either of the other cars as a track car. It tended to understeer more, and its 4 wheel drive system was more of a disadvantage (undesteer, extra weight) than an advantage.

However, as a reminder of how finely balanced the GT-3 is, up to 99.9%, on one of the turns late in the session, I was driving briskly, but not overly aggressive. I had the suspension set to stiff. Went over a small perturbation mid turn, on a turn that I have done probably 500 times, and the rear end instantly snapped, rotating me into the grass. My son, who was chasing me in the GT-R said there was NO indication that this was about to happen. Good reminder what 66% weight on the rear wheels can do once the pendulum starts to swing!!

Anyhow, two great cars - and a lot of fun to boot. (If only I had not put the Z06 away for winter, it would be interesting to test the GT-R against it at the track.)

 

- at what corner, at what track, and in what gear / speed did the spin with the gt3 happen
- i'm going to guess it was a 2nd gear corner with lots of steering angle (that is my only experience with the car "snapping"
- since you said late in the day, i will assume the tires were not cold - add that to the mix in a large steering angle 2nd gear corner and that describes perfectly my 3 offs so far

 

Off camber or long round sweepers with too much steering angle and not so smooth with throttle will make it snap. I've done it on 3rd gear more then I want times. I don't remember ne 2nd gear snaps since car is going slow thru a corner unless u really put on too much throttle early. Regards. Mike

 

I fear that sophisticated computer driven four wheel drive systems are the wave of the future. Computers seem like a poor substitute for seat of the pants for fun.

 

I have spun my 996 GT3 at Cotton Corners in setup #13 at Buttonwillow (clock wise) 3 times in one day
It was the 2nd corner of a 3 turn series and its off camber in relation to the 1st turn
everytime in the same section different session. All after a shift from 2nd to 3rd.

Thats the ONLY time I can remember either car being upset.

 

i bet you didn't go all the way right for the 1st right turn at cotton corner as you result you had to pinch for 2nd apex on left, then spin. it's a fun series of turns.

 

Dunnville Autodrome in Southern Ontario, third gear, probably around 100 kilometers/hr, faily gentle left hander, warm tires, smooth throttle, discontinuity between two track surfaces.

 

Sounds like I am not the first to do this!
Guess I better practice it some more, so I am less surprised next time!

By the way, at my post-spin inspection back home, I did find that the rear tires (Toyo Proxes R888), were quite worn in the inside edges, but probably still have a track day or two left in them.
Joe

 

should be in 3rd into cotton corners either direction. its a very fast set of turns. did you mean the 3rd turn (going clockwise) because that is the one that is off camber. 2nd is flat going up hill. if you turn in too early on the 2nd turn, you have to back off for the 3rd. I have seen plenty of people spin at that spot. good thing is its still fairly slow and the car just comes to a nice although dusty stop.

 

i love these real world back to back reviews by real owners and real drivers.

confirms what i'd suspected about the cars (GTR ultimately faster thanks to speed and stability in corners, GT3 more challenging and more involving)... but its great to see confirmation from the field.

it almost sounds like the GTR is like a bigger, faster Evo. my modded Evo5 is ultimately quicker round my local track than my GT3 (in my inexperienced hands anyway,) but it feels a bit "numb" and not as "alive" in the same way that the GT3 is. certainly the GT3 is relatively scarier!

post made my day, thanks!

 

Man what do you know? j/k You are right... its 3rd all the way. I love throttle steering thru these turns. Mooty is right too... you have to hit those apexes i mean nail it every time successfully to complete those sections.... late late turn in on going into 2nd corner but what do I know.. I am new to rear engine car.

 

- were you running the track backwards (anticlockwise)
- was it the sweeper after the front straight?
- i have only done that track once in the clockwise direction and i love that sweeper in the clockwise direction as it is coming onto the straight and in my heavily modified S4 i am in a perfect 4 wheel drift there

- we likely know a few fellow gt3'ers in common as i know a few who do the Dunnville thing
- you have to bring that gtr to mosport to let it shine
- i will be there tomorrow with APEX with two cars (gt3 and heavily modified S4) and i'm sure there is room (give Gerry a call at Apex)

- are you sure you didn't lift off the throttle a tiny bit?

 

Was running the normal clockwise direction. It was Lens curve, where new pavement meets old pavement - must have been slightly upset by the change in pavement or a bump in the pavement. I am not aware that I lifted.

 

I was 3rd I had already shifted and I took the first turn to the right and then the quick left hander is where I lost it. I never got to the 3rd until I drove off the dirt. you are correct its is not off camber and the 3rd turn in that sequence is the off camber turn. I was probably doing what Mooty said.I didnt get far enough to the right. Not enough preparation. And Yes i came to a nice dusty stop.