grussell

Thanks Fred!

How did the trailer work out?

I'll be in Vegas Oct. 18 - 19. I hope to see you there!

NJ-GT

You can compare lap times from GT2 against GTC3 and GTC4 from several races in the last few years (check PCA CR results). It is a rare occasion when a GT2 car beats a GTC3/GTC4. But, a car built to the extend of the GT2 rules will be faster than any Cup.

Look at the number of GT3 Cup with rebuilt engines already, even when used for DE only, the engine opened at 100 hours requires a rebuild. I know from a brand new 996 Cup used for DE only, on his second engine build.

The Cup transmission requires a rebuild due to the R&P. I think the lifetime is around 120 hours. Copans told me not to use the Cup R&P unless I wanted to get it replaced every two years.

There are plenty of 996 GT3 with over 100 hours at the track, plus street miles and they're running strong. You get 2 hours of track time on a DE per day, there are 996 GT3 with over 50 track days in the last 4+ years. Just 10,000 track miles can exceed the 100 hours.

There is a forum member with over 54,000 miles on his GT3 and most of the miles have been at the track. That engine easily has over 300 track hours.

coryf

Shouldn't this car be in GTA? The GT rules only allow the water cooled boxter (986/987) 6cyl 4 vlave engines. The 996 "street" engines are GTB and the GT3 based water engines are GTA. the GTA rules state it is for all 996 and later GT3 based cars that do not comply with C3/C4 and stock classes. Just curious how this car fits in GT2.

jrgordonsenior

Cory it was built for POC' GT2 class. We have only 1 PCA club race annually in So Cal. His competition are several 993 RSR's, and a certain 76' tub with a 997 cup motor and G50 5-speed that too was built for the GT2 POC class. That car ran GTP2 at the PCA race last March.....

Cory what's your experience with the longevity of cup motors and trannys?

C.J. Ichiban

all that GT3 GT2 GTP2 GTC3 etc nomenclature makes me think I'm dyslexic or something

mklaskin

Great car. Nice to see guys still getting creative.
Would the upgrade to a sequential bump you into GTA?
The reason I ask is because a racer with a 996 GT3 prepped for GT-2R was bumped into GTA at Road America. When I asked him why, he replied that he was going too fast for his class...Odd, since the GT-3R class pole was even quicker.

Anyway, great car.

allegretto

no shyte!

LiveNupe

What's R&P?

cfjan

Ring and pinion?!

coryf

Ah, makes sense. So GTA in PCA and GT2 in POC. Looks like a super fun car.

We have seen 996cup engines last well over 100hrs without any problems. The thing we worry about most is valve train failure. The hours for a tranny depends on the driver. Some last several seasons, others much less. The 05-07 997 engines are basically the same as the 996 so I would expect similiar life. The new 08 (07,08 grand-am spec) seem to be hit or miss. Ours has 55+ and is running great and shows perfect comp and leakdown. Others have failed catastrophically at 35hrs. Again, it might be driver differences.

The sequential tranny's are very durable as long as they are downshifted correctly.

Sorry for the OT post

Petevb

I'm not sure I agree with this- it contradicts a fair bit of what I've read. For instance: a 2006 GT3 CUP and 997 GT3 share almost all of the same internal parts, with the exception of the vario cam on the street car (removed for the cup car). The engine management is also obviously quite different, but the rev limiter in the street car is actually set to 8400 vs 8000 in the cup car, and we know the last few hundred RPM are were all the damage is done.

I believe the frequent rebuild schedule on the cup car is due to usage far more than any other factor. A street car, even one that's tracked occasionally, leads a pampered life compared to a race car. The street car owner is also far less likely to notice a 10 hp deficit after 100 track hours than a cup car that drags twenty nearly identical cars down the main straight fifty times a weekend.

My suspicion, based on all this, is that if anything the cup motor would need less frequent rebuilding under the same usage. I also do know a number of cup cars that still make very good power after 160+ hours, so the rebuild schedule is perhaps not as dire as it looks, especially if you're not looking for that last 1%.

That said I'm not familiar with the different tolerance groups PMNA uses to build cup motors vs street motors, so there may be factors I'm missing.

-Pete

George3

I still think it's a very sweet car.

C.J. Ichiban

pete- the cup car also revs to 8400 and makes a stated 420 hp instead of the 415 of the GT3...both cars make about the same amount of torque as well. all this is slightly academic and you are correct in that in racing conditions, you spend higher amounts of time higher in the rev range in a cup car then most people are willing to do in a GT3 street/track car. this is one of the main benefits of using full slick tires and a sequential gearbox!

the main difference is that 100 track hours in a GT3 street car are probably interspersed with hundreds of freeway and street hours as well.

fyi a 997 RSR has an even shorter rebuild schedule (something like 50%), and makes 465 hp with a rev limit of 9,400...a full 1000 rpm more.

all this being said- this is why I track drive my street car- when I am looking for that last 10% (as cup cars are about 6-10% faster around a circuit per lap) then I'll be racing...I don't see the point in having a cup car for track days only. might as well race if you're spending that kind of cashola.

George3

".... cashola ..." I like that.

Havent' heard that one in a while !

Petevb

I specifically said 2006 997 cup, which revs to 8000. As for what they actually make (hp and tq) you can't use the published figures, especially torque. The dynos are quite different.

Actually more like 25% rebuild schedule- roughly 30 hours. The teams also all rev them way beyond 9,400. And again look at the dynos and you'll see that what they claim and what they make for power are two very different things.

The GT3 World Challenge motors are a bit of a hybrid, having a rebuild schedule between that of the cup and the RSRs (~60 hours). They do have major difference that give them shorter than street-car part lives. 2 ring pistons vs 3, etc, and make well over 450 for their trouble...

-Pete