cannot believe - rms again
08-28-2008, 11:59 PM
#16
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Sorry to get off topic but since you asked
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-forum/451221-sharkwerks-cayman-pumped-up-with-new-evomsit-and-rs350-kit.html
Good tips and we'll figure something out on the steering. I agree it's a fantastic car indeed.
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-forum/451221-sharkwerks-cayman-pumped-up-with-new-evomsit-and-rs350-kit.html
Good tips and we'll figure something out on the steering. I agree it's a fantastic car indeed.
Sorry for the OT but maybe this might help someone with cayman p. steering. It seems to be working for many that track their cayman.
http://www.epiqautosport.com/pro_pow...on_boxster.php
08-29-2008, 02:27 AM
#17
Drifting
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Way Back In, New Zealand
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p has a design flaw and needs to take responsibility. we all sit there staring, like it's OK. it's unacceptable
08-29-2008, 09:25 AM
#18
Apparently, the tech's only get a certain amount of time to complete a job - if they take longer they don't get paid the extra time it took them to complete the job.
As an eg if Porsche's repair book says a RMS should take 6 hours, if the tech takes 8 hours to complete it, he only gets paid for the 6. Alternatively if the tech only uses 4 of the 6 hours he still gets paid the 6 hrs and starts to work on another job - that's how the tech's try to earn the "extra".
Apparently RMS repairs are a real pain in the *** for the tech to do. And if the tech working on your car either is worried about it taking longer than the 6 hours Porsche gives him to fix it, OR if he tries to speed the repair up to make the extra cash he can overlook some keys things in replacing that seal if he is rushing the job.
08-29-2008, 10:20 AM
#19
In a way sometimes it could be the dealer's problem, or at least the mechanic who works there.
Apparently, the tech's only get a certain amount of time to complete a job - if they take longer they don't get paid the extra time it took them to complete the job.
As an eg if Porsche's repair book says a RMS should take 6 hours, if the tech takes 8 hours to complete it, he only gets paid for the 6. Alternatively if the tech only uses 4 of the 6 hours he still gets paid the 6 hrs and starts to work on another job - that's how the tech's try to earn the "extra".
Apparently RMS repairs are a real pain in the *** for the tech to do. And if the tech working on your car either is worried about it taking longer than the 6 hours Porsche gives him to fix it, OR if he tries to speed the repair up to make the extra cash he can overlook some keys things in replacing that seal if he is rushing the job.
Apparently, the tech's only get a certain amount of time to complete a job - if they take longer they don't get paid the extra time it took them to complete the job.
As an eg if Porsche's repair book says a RMS should take 6 hours, if the tech takes 8 hours to complete it, he only gets paid for the 6. Alternatively if the tech only uses 4 of the 6 hours he still gets paid the 6 hrs and starts to work on another job - that's how the tech's try to earn the "extra".
Apparently RMS repairs are a real pain in the *** for the tech to do. And if the tech working on your car either is worried about it taking longer than the 6 hours Porsche gives him to fix it, OR if he tries to speed the repair up to make the extra cash he can overlook some keys things in replacing that seal if he is rushing the job.
While a re-design of a product no longer in production (and when in production was in a limited number) Porsche could satisfy most owners if they simply would state in writing that minor oil seeownersping is normal for this engine and does not constitute an "obvious oil leak". Therefore the caution on page 85 of the owners manual does not apply and warranties remain in force.
If they had done this simple and basically cost free action I would still have and be enjoying my GT3. It would be a no cost professional good faith explanation that would satisfy most owners. After all it is a race evolved vehicle and engine.
Repeatedly removing and replacing the engine leads to wear and tear. Replacing the same faulty seal does nothing. The statement suggested above is probably the best course of action to satisfy all parties.
Even though I don't have mine any more I will still say of all the Porsche vehicles I have owned and for that matter all the sports cars the 997 GT3 was my favorite and I'm sorry its gone
08-29-2008, 12:16 PM
#20
Drifting
In a way sometimes it could be the dealer's problem, or at least the mechanic who works there.
Apparently, the tech's only get a certain amount of time to complete a job - if they take longer they don't get paid the extra time it took them to complete the job.
As an eg if Porsche's repair book says a RMS should take 6 hours, if the tech takes 8 hours to complete it, he only gets paid for the 6. Alternatively if the tech only uses 4 of the 6 hours he still gets paid the 6 hrs and starts to work on another job - that's how the tech's try to earn the "extra".
Apparently RMS repairs are a real pain in the *** for the tech to do. And if the tech working on your car either is worried about it taking longer than the 6 hours Porsche gives him to fix it, OR if he tries to speed the repair up to make the extra cash he can overlook some keys things in replacing that seal if he is rushing the job.
Apparently, the tech's only get a certain amount of time to complete a job - if they take longer they don't get paid the extra time it took them to complete the job.
As an eg if Porsche's repair book says a RMS should take 6 hours, if the tech takes 8 hours to complete it, he only gets paid for the 6. Alternatively if the tech only uses 4 of the 6 hours he still gets paid the 6 hrs and starts to work on another job - that's how the tech's try to earn the "extra".
Apparently RMS repairs are a real pain in the *** for the tech to do. And if the tech working on your car either is worried about it taking longer than the 6 hours Porsche gives him to fix it, OR if he tries to speed the repair up to make the extra cash he can overlook some keys things in replacing that seal if he is rushing the job.
He is also very customer focused and single-handedly kept me in the loop on how my repair was progressing and what was being done. He also took the time to explain how the mechanicals work, etc.
If it is the same tech, I can bet money that this RMS problem has nothing to do with the tech and everything to do with Porsche's fix.
08-29-2008, 01:41 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I would find little blame on the mechanic since this is widely reported as a repeat repair problem. In fact, it would be NEWS if some one had a repair work.
08-29-2008, 01:44 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
is it time for the 997 GT3 owner community with one or more RMS replacements to write an open letter to PCNA?
I am sure that one or more of the Porsche magazines would pick this up?
A thought occurs, is this purely an N.A problem? I am also on the titanic GT3 list in the UK and I dont think I have ever seen mention of an RMS problem there?
I am sure that one or more of the Porsche magazines would pick this up?
A thought occurs, is this purely an N.A problem? I am also on the titanic GT3 list in the UK and I dont think I have ever seen mention of an RMS problem there?
08-29-2008, 02:04 PM
#23
is it time for the 997 GT3 owner community with one or more RMS replacements to write an open letter to PCNA?
I am sure that one or more of the Porsche magazines would pick this up?
A thought occurs, is this purely an N.A problem? I am also on the titanic GT3 list in the UK and I dont think I have ever seen mention of an RMS problem there?
I am sure that one or more of the Porsche magazines would pick this up?
A thought occurs, is this purely an N.A problem? I am also on the titanic GT3 list in the UK and I dont think I have ever seen mention of an RMS problem there?
08-29-2008, 02:06 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
that's quite surprising.
That's why I wondered if a signed letter from all the owner, VIN's listed might get some attention!
That's why I wondered if a signed letter from all the owner, VIN's listed might get some attention!
08-29-2008, 02:13 PM
#25
I sent this email today to a Factory customer service representative in Germany. He is out on holiday until next week but hopefully he will elevate the messege. Here is his contact info for anyone interested in sending their own email:
jochen.biemann@porsche.de
Jochen I don't know if you remember me, I sent you several emails regarding purchasing a new turbo. I ended up buying a 2008 GT3RS Serial #2196. One of my previous 911's was a 2004 GT3. My wife has a 2006 911 also. Since 2003 I have purchased 2 Cayennes and four 911's. My 2004 GT3 developed two RMS leaks, I had it fixed once, when it leaked again I sold the car with 6,000 miles. So far my new RS does not leak, I am hoping it will stay that way. There are two web sites, Rennlist and 6speedonline where many Porsche owners post comments about their cars. RMS leaks are the subject of many posts by GT3 owners. Unfortunately there are GT3's and RS's that continue to leak even after two or more repairs. There does not seem to be solution for this problem. Porsche has introduced a new seal, a new tool for installation and the latest fix is a spacer to hold the seal tight. Nothing has worked and the RMS continue to leak.
As an owner of a new RS I am concerned that my car could leak and there may not be a reliable repair offered by the factory. As you may know, to get to the seal, the engine must be removed so this is a fairly involved process. I would be reluctant to have my dealer work on my car unless I was sure the repair would correct the problem. I have also read that Porsche has bought back some cars. The web sites are filled with frustrated owners that love their cars but do not want the cars to leak oil. My question to you is has the Porsche factory assigned some resources to find a reliable repair for GT3 & RS cars. The problem is very serious and must be costing the company substantial money in repairs or buy backs. It is also hurting the companies reputation because owners are getting angry. I asked that you please inform upper level managers of the RMS leaks and hopefully your fine engineers can come up with a permanent solution. Thank you.
jochen.biemann@porsche.de
Jochen I don't know if you remember me, I sent you several emails regarding purchasing a new turbo. I ended up buying a 2008 GT3RS Serial #2196. One of my previous 911's was a 2004 GT3. My wife has a 2006 911 also. Since 2003 I have purchased 2 Cayennes and four 911's. My 2004 GT3 developed two RMS leaks, I had it fixed once, when it leaked again I sold the car with 6,000 miles. So far my new RS does not leak, I am hoping it will stay that way. There are two web sites, Rennlist and 6speedonline where many Porsche owners post comments about their cars. RMS leaks are the subject of many posts by GT3 owners. Unfortunately there are GT3's and RS's that continue to leak even after two or more repairs. There does not seem to be solution for this problem. Porsche has introduced a new seal, a new tool for installation and the latest fix is a spacer to hold the seal tight. Nothing has worked and the RMS continue to leak.
As an owner of a new RS I am concerned that my car could leak and there may not be a reliable repair offered by the factory. As you may know, to get to the seal, the engine must be removed so this is a fairly involved process. I would be reluctant to have my dealer work on my car unless I was sure the repair would correct the problem. I have also read that Porsche has bought back some cars. The web sites are filled with frustrated owners that love their cars but do not want the cars to leak oil. My question to you is has the Porsche factory assigned some resources to find a reliable repair for GT3 & RS cars. The problem is very serious and must be costing the company substantial money in repairs or buy backs. It is also hurting the companies reputation because owners are getting angry. I asked that you please inform upper level managers of the RMS leaks and hopefully your fine engineers can come up with a permanent solution. Thank you.
08-29-2008, 02:37 PM
#26
I sent this email today to a Factory customer service representative in Germany. He is out on holiday until next week but hopefully he will elevate the messege. Here is his contact info for anyone interested in sending their own email:
jochen.biemann@porsche.de
Jochen I don't know if you remember me, I sent you several emails regarding purchasing a new turbo. I ended up buying a 2008 GT3RS Serial #2196. One of my previous 911's was a 2004 GT3. My wife has a 2006 911 also. Since 2003 I have purchased 2 Cayennes and four 911's. My 2004 GT3 developed two RMS leaks, I had it fixed once, when it leaked again I sold the car with 6,000 miles. So far my new RS does not leak, I am hoping it will stay that way. There are two web sites, Rennlist and 6speedonline where many Porsche owners post comments about their cars. RMS leaks are the subject of many posts by GT3 owners. Unfortunately there are GT3's and RS's that continue to leak even after two or more repairs. There does not seem to be solution for this problem. Porsche has introduced a new seal, a new tool for installation and the latest fix is a spacer to hold the seal tight. Nothing has worked and the RMS continue to leak.
As an owner of a new RS I am concerned that my car could leak and there may not be a reliable repair offered by the factory. As you may know, to get to the seal, the engine must be removed so this is a fairly involved process. I would be reluctant to have my dealer work on my car unless I was sure the repair would correct the problem. I have also read that Porsche has bought back some cars. The web sites are filled with frustrated owners that love their cars but do not want the cars to leak oil. My question to you is has the Porsche factory assigned some resources to find a reliable repair for GT3 & RS cars. The problem is very serious and must be costing the company substantial money in repairs or buy backs. It is also hurting the companies reputation because owners are getting angry. I asked that you please inform upper level managers of the RMS leaks and hopefully your fine engineers can come up with a permanent solution. Thank you.
jochen.biemann@porsche.de
Jochen I don't know if you remember me, I sent you several emails regarding purchasing a new turbo. I ended up buying a 2008 GT3RS Serial #2196. One of my previous 911's was a 2004 GT3. My wife has a 2006 911 also. Since 2003 I have purchased 2 Cayennes and four 911's. My 2004 GT3 developed two RMS leaks, I had it fixed once, when it leaked again I sold the car with 6,000 miles. So far my new RS does not leak, I am hoping it will stay that way. There are two web sites, Rennlist and 6speedonline where many Porsche owners post comments about their cars. RMS leaks are the subject of many posts by GT3 owners. Unfortunately there are GT3's and RS's that continue to leak even after two or more repairs. There does not seem to be solution for this problem. Porsche has introduced a new seal, a new tool for installation and the latest fix is a spacer to hold the seal tight. Nothing has worked and the RMS continue to leak.
As an owner of a new RS I am concerned that my car could leak and there may not be a reliable repair offered by the factory. As you may know, to get to the seal, the engine must be removed so this is a fairly involved process. I would be reluctant to have my dealer work on my car unless I was sure the repair would correct the problem. I have also read that Porsche has bought back some cars. The web sites are filled with frustrated owners that love their cars but do not want the cars to leak oil. My question to you is has the Porsche factory assigned some resources to find a reliable repair for GT3 & RS cars. The problem is very serious and must be costing the company substantial money in repairs or buy backs. It is also hurting the companies reputation because owners are getting angry. I asked that you please inform upper level managers of the RMS leaks and hopefully your fine engineers can come up with a permanent solution. Thank you.
08-29-2008, 04:57 PM
#27
Drifting
Let's assume there are 2,000 GT3/RS' sold at an aggressive average of $125k each; we only represent $250 million in revenue and probably an even lower percentage of profit per unit than the regular cars.
I hate to say it, but us die-hards are a dying breed for Porsche. I'm too scared to run the same numbers above for Cayenne sales...
08-29-2008, 06:24 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Well honestly, there is nothing to lose and potentially something to gain for those that have encountered this problem.
A simple letter and a list of VIN's effected so far along with the owner's names I think might garner some attention.
A simple letter and a list of VIN's effected so far along with the owner's names I think might garner some attention.
08-29-2008, 08:45 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I like Sjgreco's approach Before I went with a public assassination I like the idea of us sending letters emails or what not to this representative or if he is not the guy the right person to get some attention. Then, after that if we get no acknowledgment and some satisfaction then I say blast away to anyone that is willing to listen.
Its not that big of a problem per se, but If i received a letter saying ok we know we have a problem, we are working on it, and we will take care of you, i would be as happy as a pig in @#%.
Its not that big of a problem per se, but If i received a letter saying ok we know we have a problem, we are working on it, and we will take care of you, i would be as happy as a pig in @#%.
09-01-2008, 12:28 PM
#30
I just received this reply to my email, the response was prompt but who knows if it will be forwarded into some black hole with no further response. But as Frank pointed out above, anyone or everyone that has had one or more RMS leaks should send an email to Jochen. Then we may improve our chances of getting someone at the factory level to address the RMS issue. At least we will be dealing with the factory versus Porsche North America.
Dear Samuel,
I´m sorry to hear that you appear to have problems with your Porsche.
I have forwarded your e-mail to our customer commitment department, I´m positive that Porsche will find a satisfying solution.
Best regards
Jochen
___________________________________________
Jochen Biemann
Exclusive & Tequipment
Business Development Management
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
Porscheplatz 1
D-70435 Stuttgart
eMail: jochen.biemann@porsche.de
Dear Samuel,
I´m sorry to hear that you appear to have problems with your Porsche.
I have forwarded your e-mail to our customer commitment department, I´m positive that Porsche will find a satisfying solution.
Best regards
Jochen
___________________________________________
Jochen Biemann
Exclusive & Tequipment
Business Development Management
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
Porscheplatz 1
D-70435 Stuttgart
eMail: jochen.biemann@porsche.de