911rox

I was hoping to get peoples' opinions on the suggestion that the next gt3 may not have a gt1 motor. Whilst only wild speculation for the moment from some articles posted on the net, if Porsche were to introduce the 997 facelift gt3 (or RS) without a dry sump GT1 based motor, would you buy (or upgrade to) this car? Could you trust that it would provided the reliability that the hefty gt3 price-tag promises for track/competition use? Should the omition of the gt1 motor bring the price of a gt3 down? After all, a crate motor for a carrera S costs US$10-15k and a gt3 motor approx 3 times that....

Can we trust that an unproven (never competatively raced before motor) with integrated wet sump and a fancy oil pump will deliver the reliability of the gt1 derivative and that it isn't all Porsche hype to talk up the successor as in the article posted by TB993tt? Thoughts???

Also, aren't they already extracting 450-60hp from the gt1 motor for the gt3RSR? Therefore, there is obviously still room for further development of the existing motor, especially with the added benefits of DI.

Personally, I'm hoping to see a dry sump gt1 motor in the facelift car or i'll be thinking twice before making the purchase...

TRAKCAR

This is the stuff that keeps me up at night.
I look forward to other opinions also, of more qualified rennlisters....

Upgrade no. Buy ne anyway over an C2S; I would, just for the extra horespower, assuming is comes in at +/- 440HP. I rather have the dry sump with that kind of horsepower, but than again as you state, it is cheaper to replace.

I am getting a GT3 for the track worthiness as an all around package, not just the engine and the regular engines seem to last fine on the track also.

It will be less "special", but still would not expect it to be any cheaper because of the engine.

mooty

i would.
buy the new wet sump to abuse and relegate my dry sumped cars to garage queen ;-)

GT3 Nut

Rumors before the current 997 GT3/RS were that it was going to be a wet sump motor. I highly doubt it is something to worry about.

fc-racer

It would not matter to me what type of motor it is, as long as it is reliable, fast and can take the stress of track days on slick tires. I used to be all about the heritage of Porsche, etc. with the air-cooled cars and now look back at that mindset as somewhat arrogant. The 997GT3 destroyed any arrogance I had towards the new waterpumper cars. My 993 Turbo was an amazing car, but the game moves on and I'm not going to be left behind again! Bring it on Porsche!

bucking

Right on! GT1 dry sump engine has been a great one. But, everyone cried crocodile tears when the water pumpers replaced the aircooled engines. And don't forget how the 356 fans said there were no more real Porsches when the 911 first came out. Porsche fans, for all their mechanical interest, can be such Luddites. Change makes our cars better and faster. Not all the changes have been good, but I do believe Porsche has continued to prosper because they have been willing to try new things while hanging on to things that are unique to it. They have tried new things, some of which have been great successes while they have also learned from their mistakes. Nothing stays the same and survives. The new engine may just be a great one--let's give it a chance!

OldGuy

Nope. I guess I just keep my GT3

bucking

997 GT3 is a wonderful car with a great engine. I love my 996 turbo and all the other Porsches I've been fortunate to experience. But time marches on, which is only a problem if your mindset is that everything good has already been done. As I'm sure that's not your attitude, I wish you would share your knowledge about the new engine with all of us; it would appear that you are pretty insightful about its manifest failings to have rejected it before it has seen daylight.

OldGuy

First of all I dont understand why you would goad someone in to a arguement about this-its as if you redicule those who dont like Porsches direction. Thats our choice. I have limited funds. Plus historical Porsches are worth something and that depends on who you are, what something is worth to you. To me if this is the last of the GT1 motors I am done. I am tired of Porsche squeezing more out of me including ripping me off by going ridiculously over sticker, and giving me less. Less service and less customer service
I think this 997 GT3 is the last of the Porsches with Pedigree. The new engines have won absolutely nothing on the track-thus they have no pedigree. I have no desire to keep buying new Porsches. They dont have anything to offer me. They no longer go to the track to risk what they stand behind in what they build.So if thats what Porsche wants to put in the cars then I am done. They have enough Porshce is fashionable customers they dont need me anyway. I will keep my car and I will be happy. Its my personal choice and I dont have to justify that to anyone.

911rox

OG, I think you have hit the nail on the head! I too am limited with funds and want to purchase something that will be special and long lasting as I was hoping to hold onto it. The gt3 has always been about more motor and track set up and less luxuries etc.You literally pay half the cost of the vehicle just for that motor! I won't be paying gt3 prices for something non gt3 that I can get in a Carrera with a whole lot more just because it has a gt3 badge. I'd be better off grabbing a Carrera s and bolting on some coilovers.

If Porsche decide to put the new motor into the gt3 and RS, they'd better shove it into some race cars and show us how great it really is after 24 hours. When spending that sort of money, I'm not taking their word for it in terms of reliability. I'm sure the curent wet sumps do just fine on a track for a bit of a thrash but they haven't won an endurance race and hell, Porsche won't even warranty a failure here in Aus if you're on R comp or slick tyres.... and they make sure to point this out... hardly reassuring for wet sump technology.

I'll be trying to buy a 997 mkI if this ends up being the case or just give up on 911 ownership altogether...

Surely they can extract another 30-40hp from the infamous gt1 motor, found an article on the current RSR and they're getting 485hp out of it with an extra 0.2L displacement.... I think the gt1 should go nowhere until its successor is "proven".

Chris

911rox

Bucking, its just that some of us would prefer "Porsche" did the proving by racing the thing first in the real world. I can't speak for others but I don't have a bottomless pit of cash to do their real world track testing for them.

The porsche of 20-30 years ago was more about building the best race cars and motors (and thus reputation) that they could whereas the modern day Porsche is more about selling more cars and returning a profit to investors. One would have to question a product that is built to maximise returns....

We ain't shooting down the new motor, we'd rather be shown by Porsche that its up to the task before parting with the cash for a track machine...

mooty

well said.
lots of decision today are based on bottom line.
looking at my post 2000 porsches and compare to the SC and carerras my parents had. sure my cars are much faster, but the quality of fit/finish and durability of interior is much better on the older cars.

that said, i have no idea how to fix the prob.
figuring in inflation, todays p car prices did not increase much over last 20 years. something had to be cut short. the GTx cars got a good motor, so i supposed the int. got short changed?

guess we can't have it all.

roberga

what ever goes in the cups. I think I will keep my 996 for a few more years or go to a Lotus or Noble then to the 998 or what ever they are going to call it.

TT Surgeon

Hey, it helps the value on all our gt1 engined cars!
But, I'm with OG, if they do that, I'm done buying new porsches.
C

bucking

OG, I was not my intent to goad you into an argument; frankly, this board is about discussing Porsche in general and this thread, specifically, about whether this is the end of the line for track oriented Porsches if they don't have the GT1 motor. For you the party may be over, that's your call. I have always had a thing for the robust 964 case. I've got a wonderful 3.3 lit turbo with some great mods, yet true to its original design with CIS etc. I LOVE it! But all I'm saying is that time marches on and Porsche needs to play in the business world that it finds itself. Face it, the USA no longer constitutes their growth market which is now in the middle and far east. That's where the consumer who can afford Porsche products is today and likely in the future. Plus, because of the mismanagement of our country today (debtor nation with increased capital outflow; rising inflation; tax burden; oil prices etc. etc. etc.) we simply aren't able to call the market shots with Porsche as we once could do. Those who don't like the face of racing today and Porsche's participation in it, same story. All of this stuff costs a lot of money; racing is a business enterprise. If you don't believe it, look at the mess a few people made of open wheel racing in this country when they wanted oval racing exclusively. As a business, Porsche must play where the action is-- economically, geographically and in sport, which is merely entertainment. All I'm really trying to say is that Porsche still interests me; I like their products. I like the way it sounds when I shut the door on my '91 turbo. I love the sound of its aircooled engine. But my '02 996 turbo will blow it into the weeds and then some. Time and technology march on, at a price. Maybe you're not willing to pay it. OK; after all you're the one who goes by the name "OLD GUY."