GT3 Suspension Set-Up for the Track
02-22-2008, 09:51 PM
#18
yes wing adjustments make a difference, I've got mine set a bit above halfway from full attack
I've got some GMG goodies (solid bushings, toe steer kit, dog bones) and am using their WC gt3 recommended alignment specs.
front camber -2.1
Rear Camber -2.4
front toe out .6
rear toe in either .8 or .9 I can't remember off the top of my head
lowered 10mm at all corners
I love the way my car handles now- no more of that mid corner roll/shift and turn in is way better without getting too much rotation. In short it's very neutral but you can still provoke oversteer with judicious throttle application in 1st and 2nd gear, or with a hint of trail braking. I personally don't worry about rotating the car on exit, that always seems to be easy with porsches. Turn in and stability are the ultimate things I'm going for because in those high speed turns I'd rather have a bit too much grip than not enough. This really allows me to get on the power earlier than other guys in the same car at my local track.
I've got some GMG goodies (solid bushings, toe steer kit, dog bones) and am using their WC gt3 recommended alignment specs.
front camber -2.1
Rear Camber -2.4
front toe out .6
rear toe in either .8 or .9 I can't remember off the top of my head
lowered 10mm at all corners
I love the way my car handles now- no more of that mid corner roll/shift and turn in is way better without getting too much rotation. In short it's very neutral but you can still provoke oversteer with judicious throttle application in 1st and 2nd gear, or with a hint of trail braking. I personally don't worry about rotating the car on exit, that always seems to be easy with porsches. Turn in and stability are the ultimate things I'm going for because in those high speed turns I'd rather have a bit too much grip than not enough. This really allows me to get on the power earlier than other guys in the same car at my local track.
- I actually tried your setup (more toe out with less front camber) and would agree that this setup (more toe out) is just as good as more negative front camber
- that said, when i did a little temp test / tire wear test, the front can really use more negative camber and will not overly wear even on street driving (not true of the rears)
- my 2 cents is to try almost your reverse settings and see how it feels - your rears will last longer, your fronts will almost last just as long (still longer than the rears) keep your front toe out setting and add 1 to 2 degrees of rear wng to keep the rear end planted
ps.
if you are up visiting / playing the bluejays and we can work out a date at Mosport (one of the scariest / fastest tracks in NA - only 60 minutes from Toronto - i run with a few groups up here), would love to share a trackday with you
paul
02-22-2008, 10:22 PM
#19
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02-22-2008, 10:24 PM
#20
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02-24-2008, 12:08 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Just had my RS aligned and corner balanced.
-2.0 F, -2.5 R, 0 toe F, +16 total toe R
Set rear sway to middle hole
Did not lower the car.
Ran Thunderhill with it first time with these settings yesterday - terrific improvement over stock. Drove 300 miles RT to the track, plus 2 hours track time - 2 track days and 3k miles total on the car, seems like decent tread left on the MPSC's.
Worked really well, no push, able to throttle steer better, more control through the off-camber stuff. A photo attached, what the heck.
-2.0 F, -2.5 R, 0 toe F, +16 total toe R
Set rear sway to middle hole
Did not lower the car.
Ran Thunderhill with it first time with these settings yesterday - terrific improvement over stock. Drove 300 miles RT to the track, plus 2 hours track time - 2 track days and 3k miles total on the car, seems like decent tread left on the MPSC's.
Worked really well, no push, able to throttle steer better, more control through the off-camber stuff. A photo attached, what the heck.
02-24-2008, 03:27 AM
#25
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Had my cars alignment and corner balance checked in anticipation of Monday(2/25) at Laguna Seca. currently 3000 miles, two past track days, No previous adjustments. Alignment was significantly off at each corner. Toe in was out and corner balancing was off.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
02-24-2008, 04:32 PM
#26
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kevin, that's cool you're taking one step at a time in regards to adjustments...just keep in mind eventually you'll probably want to do it! Hope you have a great day at L.S.- I can't wait to drive there in real life. Beware the noise police, seems that a ton of people get barred there.
if you're noticing that the car has a tendency to pitch and roll mid turn when transitioning into a higher amount of throttle, you're going fast enough that you'll benefit from those other parts. it's much easier to be fast and more importantly smooth when your car isn't conspiring against you. I am running less camber than every single dude at my local track in texas, but I get on the throttle earlier and exit with faster speeds- they scrub less in the <50 mph turns. Each setup has it's advantages and disadvantages, so keep notes and watch those tires!
if you're noticing that the car has a tendency to pitch and roll mid turn when transitioning into a higher amount of throttle, you're going fast enough that you'll benefit from those other parts. it's much easier to be fast and more importantly smooth when your car isn't conspiring against you. I am running less camber than every single dude at my local track in texas, but I get on the throttle earlier and exit with faster speeds- they scrub less in the <50 mph turns. Each setup has it's advantages and disadvantages, so keep notes and watch those tires!
02-24-2008, 07:12 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Do you, or anyone else, know a shop with suspension know-how
near Allentown, Pa ?
(I'm 60 miles north of Philadelphia)
Thanks
.
02-25-2008, 10:55 AM
#28
Had my cars alignment and corner balance checked in anticipation of Monday(2/25) at Laguna Seca. currently 3000 miles, two past track days, No previous adjustments. Alignment was significantly off at each corner. Toe in was out and corner balancing was off.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
The shims you need (much less expensive labor wise) are actually 996gt3 part #'s (at least they were when I bought them last year - for some reason the Porsche Computer System does not mention them in the 997gt3 suspension part list). What I found is that "approximately" 1mm shim = "approximately" 1 degree. The Shims if i remember correctly come in 1mm, 2mm, 3mm and 7mms. Since as you found out the front of the car can be brought to -1.7 to -1.8 by most mechanics without strut rotation, my 2cents is to order a 7mm and a 3mm for each side (cost is less than $100) and basically keep them in the glove box (parts are tiny - 1/3rd the size of a credit card) until you need them.
I have had 4 alignments since owning the car and each time the alignment had moved quite a bit from the previous session.
Paul
02-25-2008, 12:49 PM
#29
Had my cars alignment and corner balance checked in anticipation of Monday(2/25) at Laguna Seca. currently 3000 miles, two past track days, No previous adjustments. Alignment was significantly off at each corner. Toe in was out and corner balancing was off.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
Front Camber adjusted from -1.2 to -1.7 (max he could get without changing or adding parts) Toe in was .42 reduced to .18 total.
Rear Camber was at -1.8 now -1.9. Toe in was at .29 now .40 total.
cross balance was 48.5% vs. 51.5%, now 49.4% vs. 50.6%.
Modest adjustments it seems for now. Typically I have preferred to make small adjustments and read the cars attitude changes. I will see how this feels and if i can notice any difference from my previous track days. Although I doubt I have learned the car enough yet, considering I am coming from a BMW E 36 M3. I would like to step towards -2.5 in front with 0 Toe and -2.0 in the rear, keeping the rear toe unchanged. What I have read on this forum indicates I will need to swap the strut hats and buy some shims to accomplish this in the front.
PS I very much appreciate the comments and posting of many on this forum. It is very helpful to be pointed in the right direction by those who have been there.
Do you have a GT3 or a C2? I think you should make it clear if you do not have a GT3, as it is easy to get more than 1.7 negative in the front with any GT3. I think you do have a GT3, but your alignment comments indicate that you may be talking about a different car.
I think everyone on this board wishes to be helpful, but you need to indicate what type of car you are referencing in order to prevent confusion.
BTW, please post how Laguna is on 2/25. Thanks!
Last edited by lawjdc; 02-25-2008 at 01:10 PM.
02-25-2008, 02:37 PM
#30
Do you have a GT3 or a C2? I think you should make it clear if you do not have a GT3, as it is easy to get more than 1.7 negative in the front with any GT3. I think you do have a GT3, but your alignment comments indicate that you may be talking about a different car.
I think everyone on this board wishes to be helpful, but you need to indicate what type of car you are referencing in order to prevent confusion.
BTW, please post how Laguna is on 2/25. Thanks!
I think everyone on this board wishes to be helpful, but you need to indicate what type of car you are referencing in order to prevent confusion.
BTW, please post how Laguna is on 2/25. Thanks!
Without shims or rotating the struts, most gt3s /rs will only allow -1.7 to -1.8 front camber - some people have reported getting upto -2.0 - in my car the max was -1.75 without shims.
Paul