Here are some pictures from the event. The only GT3's were my white RS and a regular one (black) from Kentucky.

http://www.staff-photographer.com/bms.htm

BTW, the last two pages contain some beautiful Lambo pictures.

 

Very nice photo spread! Great track for the event.

Thanks for the effort... and for picking up the funding. ;-)

 

Phillip, what track times did you run at Barber. I realize you were running Corso's per your other thread, right?

 

Never timed it. Didn't know anyone there and didn't have time to relearn the GPS data logger, which I haven't used in 2 years.

 

Let me know if you will plan to do any Barber events in the Spring, would love to be a ble to compare notes with you.

 

The regular one from Kentucky was my best friend, neighbor and fellow NASA Time Trial foe, Tim.

I found some video footage of you in one of the tapes that I'm digitizing for him, you come in around the 4:30 mark. This was early in the day and he had asked an instructor (corvette?) to show him around the track at speed.
--> VIDEO: Barber Motorsports Park, SCCA, 12-01-07

 

Hey guys this is my first post on this site. I just want to thank Tim for helping us out by volunteering to instruct at our Dec 1 PDX at Barber Motorsports park. He also let me drive his 997 GT3 and I have to say owning a highly modified Z06 I was impressed how well the car responded to throttle and steering inputs. The most fun was running down the white GT3 RS. I bet it looked cool from the third floor by control as we came down the front straight one in front of the other. I didnt have a chance to talk to the person driving the white GT3, but I want to say that was a lot of fun and hope to see you at Barbers again along whith Tim. David Leonard, Chief Instructor ALSCCA. See ya at the track.

P.S. Tim I will get your refund in the mail a.s.a.p.

 

Philip

Beautiful car and I agree it is very annoying at DE's when certain drivers don't play by the rules...

The DE's are not races they are fun track days...if you think you are a race car driver go race and skip the DE. I am taking my Carrera GT to Buttonwillow next week and I would be ****ing pissed if someone passes me without a wave by. The rule is very simple...wave the faster car by slow down and stay on your driving line.

RichK

 

Philip
FWIW, I watched the video, and I'm not sure you have a reason to be pissed.

Just a couple of observations, if I may be so bold.

Minor points, but you could improve in a couple of areas that would keep that lesser car from catching you...you consistantly brake early and your turn ins are not precise, i.e. you drift from the edge of the track, costing room at track out.

Major points
I saw you brake in at least three areas of the track that were inappropriate (I'll point them out if you like).

In turn 14A, you took a line that was much slower than the following car. His LINE brought him up beside you. I would hardly call that a pass. You began to drive erratic at that point, and that appeared to worsen the situation.

And last, but certainly not least...
The following car caught you in Turn 7. If this event allowed passing anywhere on track with a point by, why was he still behind you in Turn 14?

 

Philip

I appreciate your patience in replying to my observations, and if you will, indulge me further. Your points are valid, for the most part.

I didn't refer to the line you took as being slow because he overtook you, I referred to it as the slow line because IT IS.

I would propose that if you are attending a track event for the first time in 2 years, and are a little rusty, that you request to be placed in an intermediate run group until you are up to speed and feeling comfortable. Most clubs are willing to move you up once you demonstrate the skill, particularly if you arrange it ahead of time.

Moreover, you still have not adressed the most important issue I raised...why was he still behind you in 14?

 

Philip, It seems there is a bit of confusion here. In the video that I posted above, Tim is not driving his car, Tim is riding shotgun. The person driving Tim's car in the that video is the poster directly after my first post, David Leonard (vette6autox), the Chief Instructor for the ALSCCA. It's not exactly clear from my post or from David's post -- but he was the one that passed you, not Tim.

Please, please, please don't take this the wrong way, but If you were really that pissed off, maybe you should have gone to talk to Tim directly or the Chief Instructor anyway to vent your frustations, potentially create a safer environment for everyone and give a chance to hear the other side of the story -- then you would have also discovered that it was actually the Chief Instructor that executed the pass on you, not Tim.

I was not there, but apparently David lives in Birmingham and has maybe 10,000 miles around Barber -- so in my mind, you were doing a bang-up job by it taking a lap and a half to actually get to a spot were he could pass you.

Again, sorry for any confusion, and on behalf on Tim, he said you were a super nice guy and great driver.

 

But by the way, thank Tim for the video; it is fun to watch. It's not often that you get to view your mistakes from behind.

 

Here's a question that you don't have to answer...where did you think that black GT3 in your mirror came from? Did you think he fell out of the sky? He was on you in turn 7, and yes, you pull him coming out of the turn...why wouldn't you? You're ahead of him on the track, that's why you "pull him". He has to lift going into the kink, brake early into 11, and lift again when you brake in the middle of 12, and I won't even mention turn 13 and 14. This has been covered ad nauseam at many a drivers meeting...just because you can pull someone on the straights doesn't mean you should hold them up in the turns.

It's really pretty simple...when you see a faster car approaching from behind, point them by at the EARLIEST opportunity. By the way, this is not optional any more than waiting for a point is. Keeping it simple, the appropriate place for you to have waved him by in this instance was on the backstraight after the kink. Period.

Does that make it OK to pass without a point? No, and don't try to make out like that's what I'm saying. What I am saying is he didn't "pass" you. If he had passed you, he would've been in front of you exiting 14A, instead of trying to figure out what you were doing. If you maintain your line there, I guaranty that he wouldn't have hit you, so how did he "take away your line"?

By the way, given the difference in speed between the 2 cars coming up and over the tunnel, turn 14 would have been another good place for a point. If you're not comfortable with this, I again suggest that you reevaluate which run group you would be best suited for. In other words, in the instructor/solo group, we don't expect to be held up for even ONE TURN. Anticipate the car behind you as it is approaching, lift and point...simple. If you want to try and see how long you can hold him off, don't be surprised if he gets in your mirror.

In a nutshell, what I said from the beginning is not about whether his driving in turn 14 was right or wrong. Rather, I simply maintain that you shouldn't be pissed because it never should have gotten to that point...he should've been by you on the backstraight...rendering this entire discussion "MOOT".

 

Philip, my name is David Leonard. I was the one who was driving Tims car. Let start out as saying that I am sorry if you are upset at what happened at 14B. Let me clear the air about what happened from where I was sitting. I knew from many laps around that track and all the instructing that I do that you never were in any danger of geting hit. The problem if you want to call it a problem is not me taking your line away but the fact that you decelerated instead of keeping you line. If you look at the video I had to slow because you slowed down. All you would have had to do was to keep momentum around 14b and I would have stayed dirrectly behind you. You can accuse me of taking your line away all day long but that is not what happened. And you should have let me by on the back straight where it was the earliest and safest. You can agree or disagree, that is your call. I didnt post this to start anything just what was happening in the other car.

 

I guess it was just a matter of time. Your responses finally degraded to typical.
I'm not sure why your panties are in a bunch, when I am merely trying to help you.
Oh well, keep doing it your way and pissing yourself and others off.
I'll leave it with this parting shot, since the guy who was in the other car showed up to defend his own position...
As an outside observer, with no dog in the fight, here is what I see in the video.
He is in your mirror as early as turn 1, possibly even coming onto the front straight. This gives you plenty of time to decide his closing rate and where to let him by without holding him up. He closes alot of ground going into 5. He is on your bumper in the corkscrew. You HELD HIM UP in 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14. Unacceptable. Let him by after 10, and the rest is non-history. Frankly, I would have let him by coming out of the corkscrew, because that would have meant the least impact on my own lap.
I wonder if your actions would have been different, if you had known it was the lead instructor driving instead of Tim.

Oh and about him coming inside of you...are you saying that he should have followed your ricockulous line there?