340Elise

Lotus is not heading there; performance through light weight is their whole philosophy, they have been there for some time. What is funny is that the Lotus Elise and Exige are getting heavier also and current owners complain about it all the time. For 2008 the touring package has more leather and a couple extra pounds; you would be amazed how many Lotus fanatics cry about this. But they are correct. I believe the original 111 S1 came in somewhere in the 1,600 lb range in the 1990's, now the NA Elise is 1984 lbs and the Exige S is 2077! They are truly getting heavier, but still half the weight of this Nissan and almost half the weight of a 997 turbo cab with a tiptronic.

I know that BMW is looking into the technology and shooting for making a car that is closer to 2600 or 2700 lbs (that would be a huge improvement). As I mentioned, Ferrari is looking at maybe 2200 lbs for their next Enzo super car replacement.

What I think will help manufacturers look towards building lighter cars is the push for alternative energy cars. The Tesla is a good example of this. They chose Lotus to manufacture the chassis for their cars (and other parts too, the interior is almost identical) to allow them to build a high performance electric car. The Ariel Atom chassis is also used for another electric car.

Light weight not only increases performance, but also saves fuel (duh!). I just watched an episode on Discovery channel the other day where a group of engineers were not only designing lightweight car components for larger more practical cars, but they also figured out new manufacturing techniques for carbon fiber that makes it much less expensive to produce so that it can actually be used for mass market automobiles. One comment from an engineer really surprised me. He said that on the average car, only 0.37 or 0.037% (I forget which) of the fuel is used to move the person inside it. He was probably thinking of a big SUV with one person inside and the AC running and they are angry going between red stoplights. I’m not a big tree hugger, but I thought the show was very interesting.

pole position

Ehhh, maybe in London but definitly not in the US.

The majority of high end cars are purchased in metropolitans. That same majority does not log on to some forums or races on tracks, no , they buy it for looks, to impress, status or it is the latest car to have according to some magazine. For pre owned it comes down to money, plain and simple, most cannot afford new or are in love with their money aka too cheap. However, used or new does not make a difference for the metropolitan crowd, as long as it is parked in FRONT of the restaurant not in the back alley where the Corvettes or Nissans are going to be.................not to put those cars down but no way in hell are the valets putting a Nissan, no matter how many stage eleventh do the Ring in two minutes credentials it has in front of a hot bar,club or restaurant. Fact.

Porsche, Ferrrari etc MAKE their money with that crowd not with the "enthusiasts", even Pedro the valet boss has that figured out.

creator8

I had a 2008 Nismo 350Z a couple of months back and the valet parked it out front at Katsuya in Brentwood. I think the GT-Rs will get front spot here for a while too. I had one of the first STIs in LA back in '04 (stepped out of a 2000 C4 w/ aerokit). My wife couldn't understand why I got so much attention from the valets. In LA the Porsches go in back unless it a CGT.

emmros

this would make a nice beater.

YA911Fan

Depends where you live. In SoCal, garden variety Porsches have almost zero wow value because they're ubiquitous. Unless it's a CGT, you'll barely get a yawn from Pedro. Around here, Ferraris still have cachet, Porsches don't.

btw, I think Pedro would be more inclined to put a GT-R out front and center than a 997 Turbo. (But I think even jaded Pedro would still be impressed by a 993 Turbo!)

allegretto

Well, happily I don't buy and drive my cars to impress Pedro, the chic restaurant crowd or pretty much anyone else for that matter.

It only has to please a committee of one.

Kiwi Carguy

GTR assembly http://youtube.com/watch?v=mIh0WwFvEuI

Engine assembly http://youtube.com/watch?v=zta0skI9J4c&feature=related

mbg

Hello new member here. Actually I joined because I'm thinking about buying a GT3-RS, and was referred to this site to help me understand customer feedback better on the car.
Living in Japan I'm very aware of the GTR, have started seeing a few of them around the streets, and am desperately trying to ignore the (ever increasing ) red flags that I'm seeing about buying the RS as a day and part-time track car when there is this annoying value proposition out there with performance that seems to defy physics.
Two days ago I switched on the television to see a track challenge at a local track (think it was Tsukuba) where a GTR was being tested against a 997TT. Both cars were driven by 2 pro drivers, one of whom I believe had won the Porsche GT series last year. Best time they got in the TT was 1:04:9, the GTR lapped in 1:01:9. Big difference. Then they raced the 2 cars, giving the GTR a handicap and making it start at the final turn while the TT started on the start/finish line. The race was 3 laps, and you guessed it, the GTR passed the TT & won. it also looked far more composed around the track than the TT. The GTR may have been worked, I have my suspicions. This lap time btw is apparently equivalent to a 360 Challenge time- on full slicks.
The other day while I was tracking my Radical at Fuji Speedway a Cup driver practicing in his GT 911 took his brand new GTR out during the registered car session, and was pulling 1:55's out of the bag- an absolutely amazing time for a stock standard car. I think the only thing more amazing than this was a 993 Ruf overtaking the GTR TWICE down the long start/finish straight which had everyone buzzing! Apparently someone has lapped FSW in 1:52:00 in a standard GTR, which is not far off Carrera Cup times on full slicks. This guy threw me the keys and i drove the GTR around the track car park. It feels good, huge turbo boost, solid brakes. Long paddle shifters for aggressive changing on tracks. Good seats. Sound is not good.

Anyway, here's the issue- the GTR can be purchased here for 7.7million yen. A second hand (v low kms) GT3-RS is 22million yen. AND I know of 14 RS's for sale from only 2 shops over here. New and used. Seems odd.

On top of this they're producing an 'N-Spec' GTR later this year that will have more power, be lighter , have carbon brakes, stripped interior etc. This will be 12-13million yen. I put my name down for one today. This car has been responsible for me canceling my 430 Scuderia order (38million yen). It's just a value proposition that I can't ignore any longer, try as I might. I will stick with the Spider.

So, the GTR is ruining my dream of owning an RS, and has already bought me to my senses re the Scud. I'm sorry, but when Ferrari etc go on about justifying the premium to pay for a track-focused car by lap times due to lightweight composite materials etc, I expect not to be embarrassed by a car costing 1/4 the price whilst weighing significantly more.

Can anyone here convince me that the RS is a good buy given my circumstances I face..Please!

gete3

The N-spec GTR may be impossible to beat as a value/performance proposition in Japan. Although it will probably be beaten in terms of prestige and pleasure of ownership by some P & F cars. If value/performance is the main consideration stay with the N-Spec.

leif997

guess I am going to have to get the details on this N-spec GT-R...sounds like something I gotta have...anybody with details on this?

leif997

a little research turns up the following unverified info on the N-Spec...N stands for Nur...which stands for, what else, Nurburgring...nice.....rumor has it only 1000 are being made and use what is called the N1 engine? which is the same as that in Gr.N. racing apparently; this equates to a stronger engine block, bigger oil/water pumps, forged conrod/pistons, a balanced crank and Garrett turbos...about 550 hp is coming out of this 6 banger....

TRAKCAR

Well, I read about the Z06, Viper and now the GTR.

To me, the price is tempting, like the Z06 and Vipers but they need too many modifications to be track worthy and never will feel like a Porsche. So the RS is still the track car to own I think.

The GTR is less interesting to me because it is too heavy (3800lbs I read!) and with all the electronic features and gizzmo's, I am not sure if it will stay together like a Porsche.

Now, it is probably the SuperHandling AWD that makes it so fast, as it can not be the Horsepower to weight ratio, but in my track car I prefer 3 pedals, a manual shifter and light weight.

The GTR is very impressive, the brakes tell the story, they mean business!
As a daily driver for someone who occasionally goes to a track and wants to leave his car stock, I think ithe GTR is a better value and maybe a better car then the 997TT.

As for a track car without modifications, get the GT3.