ZSA Motorsport

I have a guy i work with who helps me locate, find, etc. tough to find cars. For whatever reason, i'm interested in finding a GT3 RS. seems like there are a few camps out there...some of these guys have them listed at 50, 60 above sticker. i might refer to them as in desperate need of oxygen as that thinking seems way off kilter. Then it seems most are willing to wheel/deal around 20, 25, 30 above.
and i've found 2 sellers in that 12 to 18 above. I'm only looking at the higher window prices, 140, 144, ceramics, etc.

Anyway, lately, we've been talking about the fact that Porsche announced/is to announce they are infact making 80 or so GT3RS, i guess just for the Sport Club members. one guy says he has an allocation, but i have no idea. he wants 40 over sticker. he somehow spec'd it,he says around 160k.

thats not for me, per se, but it did bring up an interesting conversation about how that will impact the valuation of the 07 RS. two dealers i spoke to believe it will bring valuations down just a bit. historically, i think this has been the case with the CGT and many turbos.

so, what do you guys think? what kind of impact would this have? better to wait for the more exclusive 08 limited production model? anyone know more specific details.

me? i say stuff heads lower in the next month or two once they start rolling. how much, i have no idea? if they would stop making th 07 RS's and state final quantities, it would help valuations.

i was also shocked to learn they built over or near 2000 CGTs. tahts wild for a 400+k car. gone are the days of the 180 993 Turbo S's. and 22 Flatnoses. i guess thats why i tend to lean that way.

thoughts? ideas? recommendations and suggestions?
i'm interested just not sure when to bite.

C.J. Ichiban

rarity is relative...
Actually it was about 1300 CGTs, also ferrari built 1250 f40's but those are still pretty hard to find. CGT prices tanked right away while flipper dudes got hosed, people crashed them, etc. - then the really smart moneybags' bought them for somewhere in the 300k range. Possibly the next generation will have a less visceral or more computer assisted gt3/ gt3rs with the PSM thing and that the rawness of the older generation will appeal more- that's the reason why values are good on the older generation cars.

New models or generations will always be faster and easier to drive, but the older ones are generally more hairy chested and collector guys tend to go for the 'joy of driving' They want less electro-goodies to assist with driving the car.

oh and the reason porsche could build so many cgts was probably because they sold so many suv's and boxsters leading into that 2 year stretch...

GBGT

1270 give or take CGT's. Many U.S. cars have been deported back to Germany or UAE where demand is very great. Many others around the world have been written off.

ZSA Motorsport

awsome. thx. my biggest concern if i were a cgt owner would be maintenance, out of warranty issues, and overall aggravation of ownership. i remember when you got your 3.8. the nicest thing about the 993s and 964s as collectibles a ssthey are pretty reasonable to service, repair, etc. dude tells me there is a team , somewhere in the US, to help with the whole shibang if you somehow whack your CGT. a "team", like a team that flies to your dealer. i'm sure that wont cost a lot. but then again, the bumper is like 30k, and the doora bout 100k, so whats another 10k to fly out some guys first class because the starter wont start.
you gotta have a bit pot to p(ss in to make that thing work.
cost of ownership too high, i think.

C.J. Ichiban

the biggest problem from cgt supercars is that the parts are replaced rather than repaired- while under warranty this is fine, but it's 2007 and those 2004's are all out of warranty, or really close.

clutch is super expensive, so are the brakes, and any accident will be a nightmare- but what other supercars are truly affordable? they're all a pain in the ***. that's the whole point really, just like ferraris, or god forbid a pagani zonda/ koeniggsegg ( +/-600k price tag and where the hell do you fix it?)

"yep, I know it costs 10k every now and then, and yes I can afford that"- me, if I owned a CGT

OldGuy

Steve-
12-18K huh?

Last week I was torched for suggesting there was such a thing as a 15K 997 GT3 RS above MSRP!!
How did this happen!! I got torched on 6Speed too can you imagine? Mostly by people who already had RS's
I am glad you are working the market

Good luck

20C4S

honestly, what makes a july 07 built 07 RS different than a Sept 07 built 08 RS? none in my book. bottomline, there are only roughly 230 07s & roughly 80 08s. car is rare, period. get the best deal u can find.

Alan Smithee

Supply is quickly catching up to demand; premiums over MSRP have dropped dramatically in the last couple months. Apparently people were getting $60-70k over MSRP at one point. Supply will continue to arrive into February of next year, and the 2008 models are unchanged, so premiums will continue to drop and/or go away completely. And if the rumored mkII 997GT3/RS comes before the end of the 997's life cycle, values will drop accordingly.

The current RS isn't the last air-cooled Turbo (or 1973 RS)...I wouldn't count on it being a landmark in Porsche history and therefore particularly collectible.

OldGuy

Jeff good luck
Alan I just dont see how they cant make a Mk II-The RSRs are gettting beat by the F430s
if they dont wreck or break.

ZSA Motorsport

I think i tend to agree with Alan. historically, ive always done quite well on aircooled 993s and 964s. right now those are the only components of my collections, some flatnoses and turbo S993s. if you buy wisely, dont pay silly prices, you typically can do quite well.

i recall the hype regarding the GT2s from a few years ago. i remember some bidding action taking 170, 190 cars up well above 200s. i passed on several low miles (very low) Gt2 in the low 100s.

i'm not being an antagonist and frankly am not trying to disturb anyone, particular those who own the gt3RS, but what differentiates this situation from a) CGT which was well above sticker 450, 500k and now can be had in the low 300s, 30% below sticker, b) gt2s which again we well above sticker and are now 60% of sticker.

this has nothing to do with the awsome character of the gt3rs. its more about valuation and whats the right market, where the market is heading. u cant get a more savvy group than this. so i appreciate the comments.

me? i think they are overpriced. i have a hard time seeing them at a premium to current pricing (call it 20 over sticker ) in 4 to 10 years. i can only see them depreciating with each mile, though if they end up not having big issues, and stay loved, the super low mile examples (under1k miles) could move up from here.

lets be real, a 145k sticker... at 40 premium = 185. these are not supercars on par with many ferraris from a collectibility perspective. are they awsome? sick awsome. if you have oodles of cash, if you just want the darn thing...if u want the nicests and fastest, a crazy machine (there probably few would disagree), and dont mind seeing 185 go to 130 in 2 years with 5k miles, then dont hesitate. unfortunately , fo rme, its a combo of value , collectibility and quality. there, value is too high because collectibility is unknown.

but then again, i'm known to do foolish things. worst case, you lose some spent money, you incur unrealized losses. been there done it, life goes on, and o uhave a nice ride in the interim.

keep the comments coming. lots being learned.

BobbyC

Some want collectibles, some want driveables. I've got 6200 miles on my RS in 5 months. I take care of the baby like no other, but also drive and intend to drive it hard both street and track. Life's too short to worry about valuations unless you're in the business of buying low selling high.

mastiffdog

Certainly the current economic climate will continue to temper premiums. I just can't see how the premiums on the RS's will hold as time marches onward. I certainly understand those that want them now. Supply and demand will continue to dictate pricing.

In this day and age, there are so many desirable cars coming onto the market every year. Better this, faster that, cooler looking, better engineering, etc. I just can't help but think that the RS can be had for less if you are patient. I sure love the car though.

996toomey

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA:IT&ih=003

This one just ended about 20K over but less than the seller wanted.

ZSA Motorsport

i dont disagree in the least. these things arent built so amazingly to sit in a garage...but that being said, i think there is an interesting component, a fascinating aspect to collectible cars, that you can have something so amazing, so wild looking, crazy powerful and built meticulously, and if you do it right it goes up in value. so part of me is totally engage by the car, its driving..it all starts there, without that, no interest. heck, i could collect cold coins and watch them appreciate. caring for, tending to a Porsche is just , well, unquestionablly better.
i'm not sure i'm not big of a driving hound. dont get me wrong, if you look at my collection, i have collectibles and drivers. i drive mine a ton. who doesnt love the way these cars cook thru turns and punch straight ahead under full throttle. its a porsche.
but for whatever reason, for me, i am real intrigued as well by the 'business' side of the whole equation. most guys looking at a gt3RS either have sufficient funds such that if you can afford to buy it, you can afford to eat the depreciation you might incur. heck, i have a flatnose S 964 that i'm actually considering turning into a driver. 12k miles. a few dealer-friends referred to that as nuts. i dont care. i just love those cars. its my cash, you get to utilize it the way you want.
i just think there is a way to combine both drivability and collectibility. remember, it only requires me to be patient, i think, for a year or so, or until dudes lik you put those miles on it, or better, other dudes who dont track it, put on 2, 3,4k of easy highway miles...the fluff comes out, i come in
but that requires patience. and thats a real hard thing to do with pcars.

u and i are solidly on the same page as it relates to life being short. you cant take it with you. anything you leave behind , once you've takent care of the wife, the kids, will get used by wifey's future next husand in becomign a pro golfer. no thanks. i'll leave the gt3 to a charity once gone, but during my time on the planet, i plan to enjoy. the economics, the deal, or just postering before buying what i want, is part of the thing i guess.

too much fun .

leif997

that makes three of us....I have yet to consider a car an investment but am interested in aquiring a collection of my own; both drivers and collectables, just for the sake of having it as I really do love these cars......

Do tell a little more about your collection, please