stuka

I have two plus years of on and off track experiences with 996 Turbo and Please Save Me.

I took a bath and got rid of it, because I hated PSM.

Now, I am happy with my no sunroof, manual only, no electronic GT2. And as a current GT2 owner, I am naturally interested in what the new one is going to be like.

So, what exactly do I need to get over?

I also hate wet sumper tippy cabs, do I need to get over that also?

What else should I get over?

JasonAndreas

Its not just about lateral stability, you can't predict the conditions between the tires and the road 100% of the time. The system can be disabled 100% of the time for the very few owners that drive on the track or for those that don't like the system and the addition of PSM really doesn't cost Porsche anything extra, the sensors are already there. So why is it such a problem?

stuka

Road condition is not important. If you can drive RWD car sideways with any power (E46 M3 for example), you don't need PSM, or any traction control. I would rather rest easy knowing that I know how to control the car, than to rely on the Please Save Me.

Oh, and mark my words. There will be spectacular crashes of 997 GT2's on the track. PSM does not defy the law of physics. And you know what happens when spectacular crashes happen on the track? That's right, the track gets shut down, everybody loses track time.

Also, LSD has to be designed to work with the PSM. The current GT2 has a very agressive LSD, which is teh awesomeness.

YA911Fan

I tend to agree with stuka. All these nannies make it impossible to determine how much is skill and how much is automation. False confidence from having a safety net is not a good thing.

I think they should have stopped the nannification after ABS.

SamuliS

Well, isnt it the problem with all new cars, they'r more PS2 GT4 than real life driving, with all new gadget's that are trying to keep the car on road.
Still, with PSM or not, it seems to be one spectacular car, with huge amount of power.

Lord_Galva

Huzza for the 968 with nothing but ABS.

eclou

Pffffft... ABS is for girls. You all are a bunch of power steering, air conditioned, distributorless weenies. If any of us were really that good, someone would be sponsoring us to drive their car(s).

stuka

That is not the point.

When I nailed an apex, I want to know it's me, not the computer.

Part of what makes DE fun is that you are making yourself better, and you enjoy interacting with your car.

It means shifting, turning, braking, manage the turn in, apex, and staying on the track, etc.

Electronics have allowed hamfisted drivers to think that they are fast, and cause spectacular crashes, think shooting across the track backwards, hitting the armoco, then shooting forward back into the track where cars are still going more than 100mph while the corner worker is furiously waving the yellow.

Guys like that would have had had to learn how to actually drive their cars if they didn't have electornics. And they would have had their oh **** moment at a much slower speed, at the slower group, where it is safer. Rather than pulling stunts like that and causing all of us to lose track time.

eclou

In my years of tracking, the only thing I can associate wrecks/loss of control to are driver error (far and away #1), and the occasional mechanical breakdown (distant #2). I hardly think that electronics have increased the hazards on the track. Any situation sending a car into the armco with PSM "on" would have crunched with PSM "off" as well. Plenty of low-tech Miatas and such plow the infields along with the uber-gadget cars.

PSM has thankfully unf*cked my line when I have pinched a 120+mph turn too hard. Believe me, it is not something to be forgotten or gain false confidence from.

stuka

You sound like a very reasonable and cautious track driver, that is what I want when I drive.

The event I described happened at Laguna Seca.

There was also a spectacular ping pong action down turn 6 at Sears Point, also by hamfisted driver with false confidence from electornics.

And how about another who advacend to the fast group without even knowing WTF oversteer is. The guy had to rely on it to not spun into the wall running clockwise at Button Willow.

And the worse part is I am in the same run group as them. Think losing track time, think sitting idle at the pits waiting for the debris to clear without water bottle (half hour run time, you get off and chuck water).

None of these shumachers would have had anywhere near as spectacular of a crash had they turn off the damn thing earlier in their driving experiences and actually learn WTF to do when they overdrawn on the traction account. Instead, they rely on electronics and it failed them, and caused me to lose track time.

iLLM3

Well, listen. I will be always the first to say, I want the rawest, grittiest most mechanical car with bare essentials, no nanny aids and so on.. My GT2 even with monster power still does not need any PSM or TC functions, the car was built to put the power to the ground and be as planted as possible when driven correctly, I have surprised MANY people in car and outside where they have an aura of fear built up thinking it is the most dangerous thing ever..

While I don't think the car needs it, I can guarentee it will not interfere with the cars driving ONE BIT, just like the 997 GT3.. The car will still be raw and nimble, even more so with the better technology (997TT and 997GT3 both prove it) and with the VTG's, 2 step LC system the car will not dissapoint, I for one cannot wait!

NelsonF

Agreed, now let's see what Porsche does in terms of build volume so that I can determine if I want to pick one up early or later.

eclou

Reminds me of an event I went to in May. I think the whole day I was able to string 3 clean laps together between yellow and black flags. This was a solo-only combined advanced run group/club race practice day for the Viper run-offs. It got to be so frustrating I packed up and left. I heard things got even worse after I left, including a couple of catastrophic losses.

Coochas

Get over yourself Stuka....I mean, geeeeez.

stuka

Have you driven a GT2? Have you driven one on the track? How about a Turbo? How many track days have you had with these cars?

I posted about my experience and why I think PSM sucks, and all you can muster up is "get over yourself?"

How about contributing something from your experience driving the GT2 or the Turbo?