Racerron

For all those who say that the RS is a great track car and that they or GT3's do not understeer, then I suggest you find the right pedal on the far right, that is the one to the right of the brake. Up to 7/10's the car is fine but still not as pointey as a 996 GT3, but beyond that it understeers like an FWD straight from the dealer. Sorry to all the race Honda CRX drivers, (those cars would eat an RS alive on a track like Calabogie) as I'm sure Jason's (AKA Noble GT) Exige would.

leif997

dude, please see my post follow up ?'s to you on the 3 days at the Glen thread....

PogueMoHone

It is always a curiosity to me why the talented drivers don't go straight to cup cars; the compromises getting it to the track seem to be a small price to pay versus the rewards on the track.

I know if I were a 10/10s driver I would rather put up with the towing hassles rather than spend time griping about the deficiencies of a street car at race levels.

krC2S

Colm one of the reasons for not getting a cupcar is that many people find spending 100k+ on a car you can't drive except for a few weekends a year at the track not that useful of a spending vs a car you can drive on the street as well even if less track capable.. if racing and not just doing track days at an advanced level that's another story


Ron keep the humor up but IMO if understeer is your only issue then that's simple..i am sure it will be sorted out with alignment.. what if you have 3deg camber upfront and 0.5 deg in the rear will the car still understeer?( extreme example)

realizing that the RS is not a "road legal race car" you were expecting it to be is something else

being happy with a car strongly depends on your expectations

my biggest dissapointment is the artificial PASM and the sound ..too quite and NOT on par with ferrari like some said

Yargk

Ok, so it understeers from the factory. It still seems like a good platform, with a great motor, great aero, and great brakes. The suspension/tire and wheel package is a good start to build on. Throw a relatively small bit of money at it and I'm sure you'll see huge gains. Just wait for the aftermarket to catch up.

Nordschleife

everytime you meet somebody who has 'issues' with understeer, ask them how they get rid of understeer
Vey oftern, merely opening the wheel half a hands width is enough for the front tyres to regain grip, overpowereing understeer with loads of throttle is a very crude and inelegant way of dealing with the problem.
Similarly, entering the corners with 'a lot' of committment often allows one to 'drive through' the understeer. A great many people experience understeer at 7/10s and think thats it, show them what happens at 9/10s and they are surprised how it goes away.
A very good exercisr is to have the passenger tell the driver whether the car is to show over or under steer through the next corner - once you can do this at will, you can get rid of understeer without making an issue of it or aqleays uverpowering it with throttle.

R+C

ngoldrich

my GT3 build is supposed to be complete May 24.

I look forward to setting it up with different alignments/settings at the track to see which i like best.

A friend of mine who is a good driver has already taken his to the track and loved it.

FWIW I will push it as usual and drive it 10/10 (well at least in my mind LOL) & 11/10s (over driving it) to see what the suspension setup effects are - and which I like best for my driving style.

I will have my alignment equip w me so I can change it at the track...

I will report back - but probably not until end of June...

Norm

Bob Rouleau

Robin - your comments are correct but inappropriate to this discussion. Calabogie is perhaps a factor. There are a number of long steady state corners (270 degrees) which are unfavorable to a car that understeers. The track surface is perhaps a factor too. Michelin Cups squeal there!

All of us could reduce undesteer by backing off the throttle and watch the 996GT3s in front motor away from us. Note - our old cars would pull mutliple car lengths on us in those corners where we fought understeer.

We could deal with corner entry by trail braking but once in the middle of a long long (seems to take forever) corner the rear end of the car was perfectly planted while the front pushed wide. This was not a case of ham fisted driving as you politely suggest in your post.

I am confident we will find a set-up that works. I had the advantage of a great starting point on the 996 from Roland Kussmaul himself (an email I will preserve like a message from God).

For now, we are the pioneers. If the 7 is like the 6, the car is very responsive to settings. Apex is trying a new set today, I am testing a new alignment tomorrow. We'll fix it.

Leif - if the drivers involved posted CVs you would be embarrassed. If a PROFESSIONAL race champion like Apex says the car understeers at Calabogie, trust me, it understeers. Same goes for Ron.

Regarding the sound - I think it is perfect. Certainly a toss up to my 430. Not loud enough .. perhaps but in this world of 92dB sound limits at Lime rock, Laguna Seca, Tremblant, Calabogie and many more to follow, I am happy that I do not get black flagged for busting the sound barrier.

Colm - while Ron is disappointed, I am not. I love this car and it will get dialed in. I did the race-car trailer thing and I am much happier with a car I can drive to the track. The 996 GT3 on cups turns laps at my home track only ten seconds slower than the pros driving Rolex GT3s on race slicks. That isn't bad for a car with A/C and cup holders The new car should be even quicker once we get it dialed in.

Best,

RR

Ron, why don't you put yourself out of your misery and sell it - like you said you would once before - or do something about it. Otherwise you ninnying and babbling makes you sound like an attention starved 12 year old.
Sorry to say.

leif997

Bob, not sure how my ?'s on the "3 days at the Glen" thead are interpreted as a challenge to those who have experienced understeer regardless of their individual CV qualifications. That being said, my original ? pertained more toward Ron giving us some objective data to draw upon when dialing in our own cars...One driver, such as Ron, with as much experience as you have stated, surely could express both his subjective and objective findings and then perhaps come up with a suggestion for a solution rather than beat down the car ad-nauseum across multiple threads.

Factory race cars do not come straight from the factory and yeild perfect results right out of the box. Days, even weeks of tuning and data interpretation go into their preparation as you know. Why does Ron expect anything less from a road car that has ""track capablities" that clearly will need multiple changes to drive 10/10ths on the track.

Norm Goldrich has the proper attitude and approach, IMHO. He is amazing at data aquisition and interpretation and I wait eagerly for his coming reviews and constructive solutions

FTS

Not that I know how much it understeers, but could 265/30 front tires potentially provide better balance without resorting to aftermarket setups and getting too agressive with front camber?

mitch236

They won't fit. Maybe it's the track you have problems with but at Moroso which has two slow fairly 180 turns, I didn't notice understeer. In fact, I could easily get the tail out with more power.

Were you running stock tires?

Bob Rouleau

Mitch and Leif - I am not disagreeing with you. Notice that I ALWAYS reference the understeer problem at *Calabogie*. Who knows I may find that the car is perfect at Tremblant tomorrow. It woud not surprise me to learn that the problem is minor at the Glen for instance.

As to qualifying the problem - Ron posted his set up as did Apex. Mine was as per the factory for street. All cars pushed so badly that 996 GT3s just pulled away from us in those corners. None of us has data acquisition on board (yet) so charts and graphs will have to wait.

I fully agree that a cup car from the factory needs a lot of setup. They generally come with super stiff setups and lack grip. Germany must have some very smooth tracks or different paving!

Leif - sorry if I misinterpretd your post. Not that I blame you, it is not uncommon for people to blame the car for their own problems. Robin hinted at it too I think. That's not the case this time.

I also suspect the extraordinary surface at Calabogie. R compounds squeal like street tires! NO chunking at all and my car doesnot have those annoying black rubber marks on the body work even after 3 days of hard running. The fact that Calabogie has so many corners whose configuration cause the car to push may be a factor. I suspect that the problem is far less on other circuits and I'll find out tomorrow at Tremblant although I am testing a new setup designed to mitigate understeer... we will see!

Best,

mitch236

I am curious as to what tires you were running and what was the outside temp? Also, was the 996 GT-3 that pulled you guys running on the same tires?

Mike K.

Bob,
Le Club has been very quiet this year( mostly open track because all of the Ferraris are down) so you should get a lot of track time to test. My suspension is getting better so we should be able to compare( cornering and straight line speeds) the two cars on a track we know well. Andrew will be there to work on the Radical and might be willing to make some suggestions . J.F. is usually in the area and has been a great help with my suspension woes. Take him out or let him drive, he has a great feel for these cars. Now if you could convince Ron and Apex to show up with a camber gauge you would probably be on the road to a solution.