Unitah

Just wanted to update the group on this...

I just did a pad replacement the other day. I changed out all the stock pads for Pagid Black RS-14 pads, my absolute favorites. I also bled the system (Castrol SRF). Here are my observations.

1. Front pads are very easy to replace. It took about 10 minutes per side. After the wheel was removed, I undid the retaining bolt (13mm nut), slid it out with a little tapping from a small rubber mallet and drive pin, and popped out the retaining spring. The only sticky point was a shoulder on the retaining bolt that got caught up on the edge of the retaining spring. Once you clear that shoulder, it slides right out. I removed the wear sensors and zip tied them up and out of the way permanently (not reinstalled). Compressed the pistons, popped the pads, replaced them, and reinstalled the parts. Done.

2. Rear pads were a pain in the ***. After I removed the wear sensors and zip tied them back, I compressed the pistons which loosened the pads already. I then unbolted the calipers, and slid them up circumfrentially around the disc, then out (not much slack on the lines leading to the caliper, but enough). I then rotated the caliper inwards, popped the pads out, put the new ones on and reinstalled the caliper. Rears took about 15 minutes each. Bad design in my opinion, but, Porsche probably knows something we don't (I hope).

3. Brake bleed using Motive Power Bleeder to 16 to 18psi, no issues EXCEPT the nipple on the transmission. How the hell do you reach that? There was NO WAY I could get my arm up there and work the valve without a lift. So, I couldn't bleed that nipple.

4. Car taken out to test and pads bedded in.
-3 stops medium pressure, 90mph to 60mph
-1 stop heavy pressure, 110mph to 60mph
-3 stops light pressure, 90mph to 60mph
No squeeks or squeels, brakes are just as quiet as stock. But WOW, do they stop the car SO MUCH BETTER. With the stock pads, the ABS didn't kick in that much. Now, it certainly does! I am very excited, can't wait for the Glen and end of May.

So, total time on the job including bleed was about 1 hour and 30 minutes (not including braking in the pads). I think now that I did the job, I could do it again in about 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 minutes. Not bad at all.

GeoT3

Thanks for the report...

how many miles did you have on your "old pads"

George

Unitah

I had 1400 miles on the old pads consisting of: 1000 miles of break in street driving, then one DE at Pocono, and one Autocross in the last 400 miles...

Bob Rouleau

Unitah,

Do you happen to have the part number for the rear pads? Based on what I saw they are not the same as the ones on the 996 GT3, or am I wrong? The fronts are the same.

regards,

fuenfer

Interesting that you did this job in an hour and a half -- I called a few shops in Northern Jersey for a brake fluid flush and they all said it would take them between an hour and a half to two hours just for the flush! I'm going to start doing this myself ...

Unitah

Bob,
Pagid Front RS-14 Black Pads - U2707-RS14 --> E2707-140-10
Pagid Rear RS-14 Black Pads - U8006-RS14 --> E8006-R14-01

Fuenfer,
You HAVE to do all this maintenance stuff yourself. Most of my wasted time is jacking up each wheel and removing and replacing the wheel. If I used jack stands, the entire job: pads / rotors / bleed takes me about 1 hour total. I have done it many times. This time, however, I didn't use the jack stands and it was the first time I did it on a 997 GT3, so, it took 1 hour and 30 minutes, a little longer...

gt3racerich

I have to do my brakes soon. Just wondering why you use the Motive Power Bleeder. I have to get a bleeder and there are a few out there. Any pluses or minuses to any of them?
Thanks, Rich

mitch236

I don't understand this advice. RS-14's are an aggressive race pad. Rotors are a wear item. I haven't found the blacks to trash rotors.

sasportas

Really appreciate your input as to rear brake pad changes. I'm going to be performing my first pad change this weekend. What was the hex size for the caliper bolt? What is the approximate torque value for the bolt? Also, I thought that I read somewhere that this bolt should be changed with each re-installation. Any new tricks to push the rear pads back against the caliper? And are there any rear shims?

Thanks,
Jonathon

mitch236

Ok, let me ask you since you know, how many sessions do you get from your front rotors using RS 14's?

JasonAndreas

It really simplifies bleeding the brakes and the clutch. And on older vehicles you don't have to worry about blowing out the master cylinder.

You want to avoid the red label Motive (see image below) because the hose is clamped directly to the bleeder. Look for the black label edition that has some improvements like a swivel head.

mitch236

WOW! I got about 24 30 minute sessions from my front rotors on the 996 C-2 with cup car air scoops using RS-14's. That works out to about 8 days. I've only used the yellows for 3 days when I first got the GT-3 and they are ok but I find the RS-14's have a better initial bite with great release. The yellows have less initial bite and good release. The real issue is what do you want from your brakes. RS-19's will last longer and be gentler on your rotors but at a cost of performance.

Unitah

I don't disagree. Well, let me be more specific. I have used both yellows and blacks (on my 2002 C4 Cab, which is fully race-preped). I thought the yellows lasted a bit longer, about 6 full DE events (most of which were 2 day events) before I felt them starting to let go, but had less bite all around. The blacks lasted about 4 DE's (2 day events), so, 8 days total. The blacks, however, just feel soooooooooooooooooooo goooooooooooooood, I love them. I used them as my everyday street pads for 30,000 miles. No squeel, no squeek, no noise at all, and man do they feel awesome! On the street, I'd have to replace the pads and rotors every 6 months (about 6000 miles or so) with the blacks.

Now, I realize I am talking about a 2002 C4 Cab, and not my 997 GT3. I just installed the pads on the GT3, so, haven't hit the track yet with them. I'll report back what I find. BUT, in the one drive I took to bed in the Blacks, they felt about a million times better then stock.

Bob Rouleau

Unitah - the Pagid yellow pads are the endurance racing compound. When I got the suspension setup from Roland Kussmaul (PAG Motorsport Director) he suggested the RS-19's stating that they used them at LeMans and went the full race without changing pads or rotors.

The RS 29 is a newer compound which has a bit more initial bite than the 19's while still being rotor friendly.

On my 996GT3 I used the 19 or 29 in front and the RS-19 in back. On THAT car, it provided much better brake balance. It also made the rear rotors work harder which in turn made the fronts last longer.

I will go with the same setup on the RS and report how it goes.

I am curious about one thing though. On this forum some have reported premature pad wear on the rear 2 x as fast as the front. I wonder if this is related to traction control. It should not matter to me since unless it is raining I turn it off.

Best,

BobbyC

Bob, let us know what you find re: 2X wear on rear pads...thus far the reports are more seat of the pants. I don't think anyone here has yet inspected the worn pads to come to a definitive conclusion. Thx